Are simple plain language wills legal in Thailand?

[Stargazer]

After a local farang acquaintance’s Thai wife of more than a decade died recently, he was surprised to find that his house (which he built and paid for) and land was going to his wife’s daughter due to lack of any other provision. He may be on the street soon. My wife was horrified. We have always assumed that she (25 years younger than me) will outlive me, but that is not guaranteed.

In the USA, one can simply write a plain languagge document bequeathing property to a relative in the event of one’s prior death, and it is considered legal. Best if someone like a notary witnesses the signature. Is this possible in Thailand without legal assistance? My wife would like to designate that one of our houses here would be bequeathed to me, along with a 25 year lease at a nominal cost of the land, as well as several vehicles, farm equipment and personal property, so that I would be able to just continue living here being a good grandfather.

Anyone have experience with this? I’m not asking for legal advice, just anecdotes and opinions, and perhaps some links to online discussions of such issues. I have successfully done my own business contracts, trust agreements and incorporated a non profit corporation, and prefer to not waste money on attorneys unless truly necessary. I’m posting in this forum topic because my question is primarily about land. I’m aware that I could have made our house here in my name, but chose not to because I trust my wife. Our current arrangement for simplicity in estate settlement is everything in Thailand belongs to her, and everything in USA to me. A living trust covers the disbursement of my USA assets.

 

[FERRET]

After a local farang acquaintance’s Thai wife of more than a decade died recently, he was surprised to find that his house (which he built and paid for) and land was going to his wife’s daughter due to lack of any other provision. He may be on the street soon. My wife was horrified. We have always assumed that she (25 years younger than me) will outlive me, but that is not guaranteed.

In the USA, one can simply write a plain languagge document bequeathing property to a relative in the event of one’s prior death, and it is considered legal. Best if someone like a notary witnesses the signature. Is this possible in Thailand without legal assistance? My wife would like to designate that one of our houses here would be bequeathed to me, along with a 25 year lease at a nominal cost of the land, as well as several vehicles, farm equipment and personal property, so that I would be able to just continue living here being a good grandfather.

Anyone have experience with this? I’m not asking for legal advice, just anecdotes and opinions, and perhaps some links to online discussions of such issues. I have successfully done my own business contracts, trust agreements and incorporated a non profit corporation, and prefer to not waste money on attorneys unless truly necessary. I’m posting in this forum topic because my question is primarily about land. I’m aware that I could have made our house here in my name, but chose not to because I trust my wife. Our current arrangement for simplicity in estate settlement is everything in Thailand belongs to her, and everything in USA to me. A living trust covers the disbursement of my USA assets.

My suggestion is that you contact @CO-CO via a PM and discuss options.
He and @Prakhonchai Nick did myself and Pats wills in Thai and English ensuring I was covered in the worst case scenario.

 

[CO-CO]

Yes

 

[WileE]

In the USA, one can simply write a plain languagge document bequeathing property to a relative in the event of one’s prior death, and it is considered legal. Best if someone like a notary witnesses the signature

There is more to it than that. Details vary by state. In mine, a will written, signed, and dated entirely in the handwriting of the testator is valid. A will handwritten by someone else or typed and then signed by the testator is not valid unless it is witnessed according to legal requirements. I was actually involved in such a case a while back.

For Thailand, I am interested in knowing how a Thai wife can leave her farang husband an interest allowing him to use the property for the rest of his life. In English-based legal systems, that is called a "life estate."

 

[Stargazer]

Good

There is more to it than that. Details vary by state. In mine, a will written, signed, and dated entirely in the handwriting of the testator is valid. A will handwritten by someone else or typed and then signed by the testator is not valid unless it is witnessed according to legal requirements. I was actually involved in such a case a while back.

For Thailand, I am interested in knowing how a Thai wife can leave her farang husband an interest allowing him to use the property for the rest of his life. In English-based legal systems, that is called a "life estate.

Good point, WileE. That’s not quite what I’m proposing, but might fall under that. I’m proposing giving a lease for a certain amount a year. I’m not sure under Thai law if that is different and allowable: can a lease extend beyond the life of the person? In the USA under IRS rules, a life estate grant is considered a gift valued at the net present value based on the life expectancy, so the amount cannot be fixed in advance. Thanks, Ferret. I’ll contact Co-co PM. Not right now: we’re pouring concrete this morning and starting another project. Next month. Life estates can surprise you: I know a guy who got one, and to the dismay of the ultimate final heir lived for 40 years more! You might outlive the designated eventual heir.

 

[lightfoot]

Yes.

Interested in how the situation would work out in untimely death of the wife ?

A acquaintance of mine after taking a usufruct contract to the land office with a contribution to the Christmas fund had his name put on the Chanote Deed next to his wife's name.

What is usufruct in Thailand?

Usufruct in Thailand is often used by foreigners married in Thailand to a Thai national. It protects the foreign souse's interest in a property in Thailand that is registered on a Thai spouse's name as a personal property.

 

[CO-CO]

Posted on behalf of @COCO---Att stargazer.

 

[Deerculler]

My first Thai wife died about 10 years ago. She was 26 years younger than me.
She had built a beautiful house about 12 months before I came to Thailand to live with her.
She could not pay for the house.
I paid for the house.
6 years later she passed away from cancer.
Prior to her death she made a will.
In the will she stated that I could live in the house for the rest of my life.
The house would still belong to her children.
If I had decide to stay in the house. The children would have not been a problem for me.
But here was the catch. Not that she put this in her will.
I would most likely to have lived in the house alone.
Because any other Thai woman would not have lived in the house with me.
Two reasons. My wife's spirit would still be in the house and after I died the new woman would not get the house.
Sadly I made the decision to move out.
I realize everyone is different.
As it can be a complex situation for most of us.

 

[FERRET]

After a local farang acquaintance’s Thai wife of more than a decade died recently, he was surprised to find that his house (which he built and paid for) and land was going to his wife’s daughter due to lack of any other provision. He may be on the street soon. My wife was horrified. We have always assumed that she (25 years younger than me) will outlive me, but that is not guaranteed.

In the USA, one can simply write a plain languagge document bequeathing property to a relative in the event of one’s prior death, and it is considered legal. Best if someone like a notary witnesses the signature. Is this possible in Thailand without legal assistance? My wife would like to designate that one of our houses here would be bequeathed to me, along with a 25 year lease at a nominal cost of the land, as well as several vehicles, farm equipment and personal property, so that I would be able to just continue living here being a good grandfather.

Anyone have experience with this? I’m not asking for legal advice, just anecdotes and opinions, and perhaps some links to online discussions of such issues. I have successfully done my own business contracts, trust agreements and incorporated a non profit corporation, and prefer to not waste money on attorneys unless truly necessary. I’m posting in this forum topic because my question is primarily about land. I’m aware that I could have made our house here in my name, but chose not to because I trust my wife. Our current arrangement for simplicity in estate settlement is everything in Thailand belongs to her, and everything in USA to me. A living trust covers the disbursement of my USA assets.

My suggestion is that you contact @CO-CO via a PM and discuss options.
He and @prak did myself and Pats wills in Thai and English ensuring I was covered in the worst case scenario.

My first Thai wife died about 10 years ago. She was 26 years younger than me.
She had built a beautiful house about 12 months before I came to Thailand to live with her.
She could not pay for the house.
I paid for the house.
6 years later she passed away from cancer.
Prior to her death she made a will.
In the will she stated that I could live in the house for the rest of my life.
The house would still belong to her children.
If I had decide to stay in the house. The children would have not been a problem for me.
But here was the catch. Not that she put this in her will.
I would most likely to have lived in the house alone.
Because any other Thai woman would not have lived in the house with me.
Two reasons. My wife's spirit would still be in the house and after I died the new woman would not get the house.
Sadly I made the decision to move out.
I realize everyone is different.
As it can be a complex situation for most of us.

We have our wills set up exactly the same.
If Pat passes prior to me, her Thai will states that I can remain in the house until I move out or pass, and our two kids will retain ownership
of our house in Sangkha and in Patts.

 

[CO-CO]

My first Thai wife died about 10 years ago. She was 26 years younger than me.
She had built a beautiful house about 12 months before I came to Thailand to live with her.
She could not pay for the house.
I paid for the house.
6 years later she passed away from cancer.
Prior to her death she made a will.
In the will she stated that I could live in the house for the rest of my life.
The house would still belong to her children.
If I had decide to stay in the house. The children would have not been a problem for me.
But here was the catch. Not that she put this in her will.
I would most likely to have lived in the house alone.
Because any other Thai woman would not have lived in the house with me.
Two reasons. My wife's spirit would still be in the house and after I died the new woman would not get the house.
Sadly I made the decision to move out.
I realize everyone is different.
As it can be a complex situation for most of us.

Good point. There are more than just legal reasons. Few Thai women would want to stay in a house where a former partner had died.


I only lived in Buriram because my partner hailed from there. If she died before me I would not choose to live there.



In all honesty I am not sure if "I could live in the house for the rest of my life." would stick from a legal point of view. I can envisage a situation where a Will said, the kids transfer into their names and then kick out the widower...................... a cynical view perhaps but, as the Farang, I wouldn't like to have to test it in court.


Arguably, a Usufruct offers more protection as you appear on the chanote and the property cannot be transferred without your approval. Any transfer would be subject to your Usufruct rights to the 'fruit of land'.......... a bit like selling a house with a sitting tenant.

 

[Stargazer]

So many generous and helpful comments! Pointing me in a good direction. As Deerculler’s story illustrates, cancer can step in and disrupt anyone’s plans. One of my grandmothers had everything planned out carefully so her husband would be OK after she died. Then he up and died first, which annoyed her as it wasn’t in her plan

 

[Stargazer]

I guess it depends on your point of view. My wife of 40 years died in bed next to me overnight. I sat with her the next morning till the coroner took her body away. And then I slept there that night. Alive or dead, she was my dear wife, and everything connected with her was good. But Thai women might have their own views. I doubt I’d want to walk away from what me and my Thai wife built together, nor do I think she would want me to.

 

[CO-CO]

I guess it depends on your point of view. My wife of 40 years died in bed next to me overnight. I sat with her the next morning till the coroner took her body away. And then I slept there that night. Alive or dead, she was my dear wife, and everything connected with her was good. But Thai women might have their own views. I doubt I’d want to walk away from what me and my Thai wife built together, nor do I think she would want me to.

You may wish to research Thai customs and practices........................especially where death is concerned.


I would wager that few, if any, Thai womenwould stay in house where someone had died - even after the monks had done their stuff to ward off the spirits.


As you say, each to their own - I would have no desire to stay in a place that was 'ours'.

 

[lightfoot]

As you say, each to their own - I would have no desire to stay in a place that was 'ours'.

"Desire" excellent definition.
I've listened to many individuals say, I wouldn't want to live like that when they see other individuals in a bad situation or ill.
They're not in the other person's mind or body.
Individual autonomy, most desirable, if one has mental, physically and resources to create the ability to achieve.
Being able to control the situation for a comfortable end for loved ones and self ,"Mysterical".

 

[Deerculler]

My suggestion is that you contact @CO-CO via a PM and discuss options.
He and @prak did myself and Pats wills in Thai and English ensuring I was covered in the worst case scenario.

We have our wills set up exactly the same.
If Pat passes prior to me, her Thai will states that I can remain in the house until I move out or pass, and our two kids will retain ownership
of our house in Sangkha and in Patts.

My Will has been with Nick and Ray as well.

 

[Stargazer]

You may wish to research Thai customs and practices........................especially where death is concerned.


I would wager that few, if any, Thai womenwould stay in house where someone had died - even after the monks had done their stuff to ward off the spirits.


As you say, each to their own - I would have no desire to stay in a place that was 'ours'.

You may be right. But the logical conclusion is that whenever someone dies at home, the house would have to be torn down or only inhabited by bachelors . Seems unlikely that is done widely, just too expensive and impractical. My wife’s mother died last year at my sister-in-law’s farm home next door, and they are still living there. I thought the idea of spirit houses was that the spirits would move outdoors and reside there. And if the King died in the Palace…

 

[Stargazer]

Posted on behalf of @COCO---Att stargazer.

I’d like to PM you as suggested, but don’t seem to be allowed to by the forum. If OK with you, please email me via mel@malinowski.com or iMessage me if you’re on Apple. Anyone on the forum who wishes can also do so.

 

[Rice]

You may be right. But the logical conclusion is that whenever someone dies at home, the house would have to be torn down or only inhabited by bachelors . Seems unlikely that is done widely, just too expensive and impractical. My wife’s mother died last year at my sister-in-law’s farm home next door, and they are still living there. I thought the idea of spirit houses was that the spirits would move outdoors and reside there. And if the King died in the Palace…

You are missing quite a few nuances it is never cut and dry as you logically assume. @CO-CO scenario is a specific case in point in the many nuances of ghost lore of Thailand. Oh !! Bye the way. Never go for a logical conclusion on anything in Thailand.

 

[WileE]

Isaan Lawyers is listed as a sponsor of this forum. Has anyone here used their services? Any recommendation pro or con?

 

[lightfoot]

Isaan Lawyers is listed as a sponsor of this forum. Has anyone here used their services? Any recommendation pro or con?

I called to see what will would cost, I don't recall the quote, I thought more complicated than I wanted and considerably more than what I wanted to pay.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't contact them as individual I spoke with communicated in excellent English.