How much money do monks actually get?

isanbirder

isanbirder

Surin Dinosaur
An interesting article by Sanitsuda Ekachai contains this gem:-

According to research by Assistant Professor Nada Chansom of the National Institute of Development Administration, the country's 37,075 temples receive about 100-120 billion baht in donations annually....


http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/361221/reflections-on-religion-graft-and-teenagers


That is roughly 3 million baht each. Considering that they live largely free (food donated, robes donated, accommodation provided (air-conditioned kutis are not unknown)), and considering that many temples house a few monks only, or in some cases a single monk, this seems to be excessive.

I believe that everyone has the right to choose their own religion (or none), and Buddhists are no exception. But don't they have the right to see more from these donations than excessive expenditure on concrete?

I know one ex-monk who, in addition to his work in the temple, controlled a charitable fund. His abbot asked him for B.20 million from it (more than the fund contained) for what? Concrete!

Forget the occasional fraudsters who accumulate fleets of luxury cars and other extravagant items. Thinks instead of the monks in the ordinary temples. Many of them are dedicated to their faith, but are they giving the laity what they need? Or just amulets, and various kinds of ju-ju?

Before anyone goes off track in this thread, I freely admit that the Catholic priesthood is certainly not all that might be desired.... but this thread is NOT about Catholics; it is about the temples we live near, the Buddhists we live among, and the monks we see daily.

I would be happy to see positive comments on the temple near you and its monks.
 
An average of 3 million baht per wat (temple)! All from donations.

Here in my village, it is predominantly the old ladies (Grannies) that frequent the wat on a daily basis (cannot go without making a donation)! Every week or so the village tannoy blares out the need for additional donations for the temple.

And the kids under Granny's care (usually on less than 1000bt/month including Granny) often go to school with no breakfast (because the walking monks in the early morning (beggars) have to be fed first.

Most people here know I despise the Monks and the wats. They are in my view unnecessary. Believe in Buddha by all means -but why do you need "agents" to do your praying etc for you!

In the UK, if a vicar or priest visits a sick or dying person, he receives a cup of tea and a piece of home made cake for his trouble. Here in Thailand, the whole bloody village turn up for free food and drink, and the Monks (generally 9 of them) are paid between 300/1000bt each, as well as being fed - usually paid for by the family taking a loan from a loan shark!

It is high time in my opinion that Thai people ask themselves "WHY" instead of just continuing with centuries old customs which makes them the losers!
 
I often wonder why I see most charitable contributions within the communities paid into the temple whilst there are lonely old Grannies and children locally who could do with some help themselves. It seems that the only way you can make merit here is by giving money only to the monks.
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
An average of 3 million baht per wat (temple)! All from donations.

Here in my village, it is predominantly the old ladies (Grannies) that frequent the wat on a daily basis (cannot go without making a donation)! Every week or so the village tannoy blares out the need for additional donations for the temple.

And the kids under Granny's care (usually on less than 1000bt/month including Granny) often go to school with no breakfast (because the walking monks in the early morning (beggars) have to be fed first.

Most people here know I despise the Monks and the wats. They are in my view unnecessary. Believe in Buddha by all means -but why do you need "agents" to do your praying etc for you!

In the UK, if a vicar or priest visits a sick or dying person, he receives a cup of tea and a piece of home made cake for his trouble. Here in Thailand, the whole bloody village turn up for free food and drink, and the Monks (generally 9 of them) are paid between 300/1000bt each, as well as being fed - usually paid for by the family taking a loan from a loan shark!

It is high time in my opinion that Thai people ask themselves "WHY" instead of just continuing with centuries old customs which makes them the losers!
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I have referred in the past to the Thais interpretation of traffic regulations, obtaining a driving licence and the law in general. It is, in my view, the same with Buddhism. The Thais will apply the principles of Buddhism that suit them and the monks appear to conduct themselves for their own benefit. Other religions appear to be of a 'giving' nature whilst (Thai) Buddhism seems to be about taking. As Lukey states there are old people who on the poverty line who are morally pressured into giving (making merit) whilst monks will walk around with a full wallet - that, frankly, is obscene.

I doubt that Thais will question or challenge the monks' position any more than they would question the highest authority in the land. They have been indoctrinated and seem to willingly accept that the more you pay the greater merit you obtain. Stories of 99 monks at gatherings and million Baht donation (paraded around through town on the back of a pick up with the donor seated on a chair) are just examples of "show" that remains one of the worst traits of Thai culture.

In other countries religion is a 'calling' and a priest will go through a career in the church. The monkhood seem sto be a temporary occupation - often forced upon youngsters by their mothers who seem to think that their sons will be cleansed or enlightened by the experience. I tend to share Nick's view that they were probably fornicating drunks before donning a saffron robe and will be fornicating drunks after release - sometimes after only a week or two.
 
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CO-CO said:
...................In other countries religion is a 'calling' and a priest will go through a career in the church. The monkhood seem sto be a temporary occupation - often forced upon youngsters by their mothers who seem to think that their sons will be cleansed or enlightened by the experience. I tend to share Nick's view that they were probably fornicating drunks before donning a saffron robe and will be fornicating drunks after release - sometimes after only a week or two.
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That is not my view. I have seen it happen more than once in my own village. I don't believe it is the mothers view that their sons will be cleansed or enlightened.. It is all for show, and the "becoming a monk" party is just an excuse to do it better, bigger and more expensively than the last person!

It is the same with the 100 day parties after death (bone interrment). Every family tries to out do the other with a grandiose party -some with boxing, dancing girls and likhae. Shame that the deceased is not there to enjoy it!
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
That is not my view. I have seen it happen more than once in my own village. I don't believe it is the mothers view that their sons will be cleansed or enlightened.. It is all for show, and the "becoming a monk" party is just an excuse to do it better, bigger and more expensively than the last person!

It is the same with the 100 day parties after death (bone interrment). Every family tries to out do the other with a grandiose party -some with boxing, dancing girls and likhae. Shame that the deceased is not there to enjoy it!
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Just to clarify I was quoting your view about being fornicating drunks - you actually said that they were likely pissed and shagging before they went in and would revert to form when they came out - I was not attaching the mothers' view to you.
 
CO-CO said:
Just to clarify I was quoting your view about being fornicating drunks - you actually said that they were likely pissed and shagging before they went in and would revert to form when they came out - I was not attaching the mothers' view to you.
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My view, and what I have witnessed still applies.

IB's thread but we have yet to hear his further comments!
 
In general I agree with what people have said, especially as regards the village temples.

In some of the bigger towns, like Chiangmai, the monks run AIDS hospices, meditation centres, and other charitable concerns... but as you say, they never seem to succour needy old people in the villages. Not a few are involved in education, partly in the traditional temple schools, and partly in more up-to-date institutions like Nantaburi School in Nan and Wat Kirriwan in Nakorn Sawan.

But I deplore the habit of announcing donations over the village loud-speaker, shaming those who did not give.
 
Perhaps you are following the current big news story in the UK about the Archbishop of Canterbury vowing to compete Wonga, the on-line high interest payday loan company, out of business. His plan is to offer CofE premises, staff and expertise to provide ethical loans at reasonable interest rates. Note that the current APR for Wonga is somewhat over 5000% !!

Two thoughts from me......firstly, how good to see the CofE actually taking on an issue that matters rather than its usual navel-gazing over gay or (apparently even worse!) women bishops.

Secondly, how about the vast sums of donated money washing around Thai temples being used to compete with ferocious Thai loan sharks rather than funding gold-leaf covered idols or, even worse, disappearing into the trough of corruption recently exposed. Nah! Ain't gonna happen!
 
"The amount of Church money indirectly invested in Wonga was less than £100,000 out of investments totalling £5.2bn." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23459932


£5.2bn of believers money invested ...for whose benefit? That's the equivalent 244bn baht!

The Church of England, just as the monks and wats here in Thailand, despite the vast fortune they are sitting on, still go around pleading for more and more. It is high time they were called to account for this wealth to the general public.

It is obscene!

My understanding of matters religious in context to Buddhism is that monks give up all their worldly goods, whilst in Christianity, surely, unless I am mistaken, Jesus was born in a stable! No 5 star VIP accommodation for him!

How times change!
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
"The amount of Church money indirectly invested in Wonga was less than £100,000 out of investments totalling £5.2bn." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23459932


£5.2bn of believers money invested ...for whose benefit? That's the equivalent 244bn baht!

The Church of England, just as the monks and wats here in Thailand, despite the vast fortune they are sitting on, still go around pleading for more and more. It is high time they were called to account for this wealth to the general public.

It is obscene!

My understanding of matters religious in context to Buddhism is that monks give up all their worldly goods, whilst in Christianity, surely, unless I am mistaken, Jesus was born in a stable! No 5 star VIP accommodation for him!


How times change!
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Don't forget the church of England has to pay married clergy enough to bring up families, whereas the Buddhist monks don't marry. It is also stuck with all those lovely mediaeval churches which need expensive upkeep.
 
isanbirder said:
Don't forget the church of England has to pay married clergy enough to bring up families, whereas the Buddhist monks don't marry. It is also stuck with all those lovely mediaeval churches which need expensive upkeep.
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But with few if any parishoners!

Time for a rethink!
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
But with few if any parishoners!

Time for a rethink!
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And it was the rethink that the new A of C is trying to get going that was my point of posting. Finally, even though booby traps like the investment in Wonga have exploded, the bloke is trying to say and do something other than worry about gays and women. Give him credit.

Thailand's religious system could learn a lot from this....in about 500 years.
 
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