Thai Culture

S

Surin

Guest
Over the years, say, the last 20 to 25 years, many things have changed in rural Thailand. The way they now produce their rice crops, shop at Big C and Makro etc. Do you notice that the way of life has also changed, respect for family, the temple/monks and the younger generation leaving Thai culture behind.
I'm asking this as I feel here in Australia we don't have all the taboos, cultural inhibitions and no real chance of upsetting the next person with some thing said or perceived to have been done.
After having a home in Surin for 20 odd years I sort of got used to the idea they needed it to keep it together.
Is that changing?
 
They sure are. Well some things anyway. I can only comment in so far as my limited perspective drawn from experiences with my Thai wife and two daughters. Over the 13 years we have been together I think my wife has grown into a very confident and self assured young lady. She has dropped a lot or all of her dependency on the village way of life and, in particular, her dependency on fortune tellers, temple soothsayers, family loyalties and paternal influences. Moreover, she no longer cares what her family or her friends think about her as she has enough confidence in herself to see how false these relationships can be. Previously, emotional blackmail from close family members, the calling of bad names, may have been sufficient to prize open the purse strings and extract some money. Nowadays, they are politely and firmly told to "piss off!" In part, this may be down to living with me and my influence over her way of thinking. However, I think it is more a sign of the times than anything else. My wife has moved on while other close relatives have remained stationary - they have not left the village. Generally speaking, they are too lazy to find and hold down a well paid job. For them, life continues in the slow lane.
 
I too think Nomads response is excellent. It is a fact, I am sure, that where a Thai wife has a bright and responsible Farang husband, she is likely to adapt, and become assertive and self assured.
I recall some years ago, my wife went in to the local bank to withdraw 100,000baht from her account. The teller looked shocked and surprised. obviously Thai village women never did this. She asked my wife why she was withdrawing so much money and what it was for (not politely but aggressively). My wife very quickly put her in her place.
 
A friend and I were talking about a worrying decline in standards of morality a few days ago. The conversation started with a comment about the increasing likelihood of receiving abusive replies to messages posted on social media sites, perhaps as a result of (mostly but not exclusively) younger people developing into keyboard warriors as a result of the lack of good manners being taught, and the increase in violent and abusive behaviour seen on TV, in films/movies and in digital games. Kids have always copied the actions of their heroes, and have always been subject to peer pressure. I'm certain they (and others) have become increasingly de-sensitised to unacceptable behaviour.

Exposure to bad manners may be a relatively new phenomenon in Thailand when compared with the UK. In as few as the last 4 years to my knowledge, Thai behaviour has deteriorated in some social groups. Politeness is declining and aggression seems to be increasing. It may just be my impression of this though, as I've had more opportunities to notice this than previously - perhaps as a result of watching and reading more on-line material than before. I wonder if the number of incidents has actually increased, or if it is simply that our exposure to incidents is increased?

Back in Thailand, the uptake in numbers of smartphones has been phenomenal over a relatively short period, as has Thai people's consequent exposure to videoclips and images of violent events. It seems that most new movies here feature extreme violence and/or horror.

On the more positive side perhaps, Thais' exposure to Western standards is increasing daily via TV advertising and programming. The trappings of Western life were beyond their desires a generation of so ago. It took Westerners 100 years to develop a taste for convenience items - fridges and freezers, automatic washing machines, vacuum cleaners, fan ovens, steam irons, family cars, motorbikes, comfortable furniture, aircon etc., etc., but Thais have adopted most of these within a generation - as a result, I believe, of improved communication and marketing.

I agree with Nomad and Nick in that the influence of Farang husbands, and some joined-up thinking, has led many to cast-off the shackles of traditional life and to believe that Western styles have virtues of greater prosperity and comfort, adopting our standards as a result.

As a side-effect of their exposure to TV and movies, we see a demand from young (and not so young) Thai women in particular to keep their skin-tones as light as possible with huge volumes of skin-whitening products being sold to emulate their TV and movie stars - irrespective of the potential harm that's being caused by the chemicals used. These are products which simply weren't available to Khun Yai. They offer no resistance to the image-marketing.

If the advancement in convenience living has resulted from exposure to the media promoting it, then it is hardly surprising that the antisocial behaviour shown in the programs sandwiched between the adverts has also become a part of life too. It seems at times that the entire world is becoming out of control - due to the volume of media exposure. Is it time therefore to peel back the layers of unacceptable imagery in an attempt to prevent a further decline?
 
It's nice to now be able, as was before, to have a discussion on the forum without the hijacking, references to our younger wives, what happens in our own countries and a contorted ***** on every other's post. Certainly stopped a lot of genuine observations.
 
Merlin said:
Exposure to bad manners may be a relatively new phenomenon in Thailand when compared with the UK. In as few as the last 4 years to my knowledge, Thai behaviour has deteriorated in some social groups. Politeness is declining and aggression seems to be increasing. It may just be my impression of this though, as I've had more opportunities to notice this than previously - perhaps as a result of watching and reading more on-line material than before. I wonder if the number of incidents has actually increased, or if it is simply that our exposure to incidents is increased?
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I don't agree that modern communications has caused a sudden down turn in attitudes in Thailand. What you see is not a new phenomenon at all. It was not that long ago that it was the sole domain of the Thai news papers and television that spread sensational blood and guts of accidents and murders in full colour across the media without any censoring and with no sense of social conscience in doing so. This is where I learned to read Thai, in the papers of Thai Rath and The Daily news. The pictures may be a bit tamer these days, but the content is just the same as it always was. Take Thai soap operas as a case in point, they have always held a mirror up to Thai society with it's exploitation of the poor and it's attitude to demeaning women. Specially in regard to rape. Thailand has always been the same. I guess you are just only starting to notice.
Humans are tuned to seek patterns in things. Sometimes what we perceive as change, is really not change at all.

"The more things change, the more things stay the same"
 
Rice said:
I don't agree that modern communications has caused a sudden down turn in attitudes in Thailand. What you see is not a new phenomenon at all. It was not that long ago that it was the sole domain of the Thai news papers and television that spread sensational blood and guts of accidents and murders in full colour across the media without any censoring and with no sense of social conscience in doing so. This is where I learned to read Thai, in the papers of Thai Rath and The Daily news. The pictures may be a bit tamer these days, but the content is just the same as it always was. Take Thai soap operas as a case in point, they have always held a mirror up to Thai society with it's exploitation of the poor and it's attitude to demeaning women. Specially in regard to rape. Thailand has always been the same. I guess you are just only starting to notice.
Humans are tuned to seek patterns in things. Sometimes what we perceive as change, is really not change at all.

"The more things change, the more things stay the same"
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No. You confuse my comment about the noticeable increase in bad manners with your own reference to news reports showing blood and guts. The former was an attempt to explain the link between the increase in bad manners with an increase in exposure to the antisocial behaviour of TV and movie characters here and in the west, accessed by greater numbers of smartphones etc., than were used in the past.

Whilst I feel that people, anywhere, could become de-sensitised to the sight of real blood and gore if exposed to it via the media for long enough as has been the case here - and in France (as one more example,) I don't feel that it has a direct impact on worsening manners. I can't comment on Thai soaps as I avoid them like the plague wherever practical and don't have the benefit of your Thai fluency. Nevertheless, soaps the world over tend to exaggerate the realities of life in much the same way as cartoons featuring road-runners and coyotes. Without decrying the need for Thais (amongst several other nationals) to have a much greater respect for ladies than may be represented in those soaps, the discussion originated with the O.P., Surin's, perceived changes in younger Thais' behaviour away from their traditional culture and respect of family values, coupled with their changing habits including shopping at Big C and Makro (rather than always using village markets and their own crops.)

As our societies develop, so methods change - not always for the good of all: A few months ago, driving past rice fields being planted by many labourers, (the farmer's family members perhaps) I recalled the way farming has changed in the UK during my own lifetime: from labour intensive to mechanised, in most cases. The concept of replacing labourers' wages with the cost of the equipment in return for a time-saving and bigger returns brought redundancy to most former farm workers. Good for the farmer, but bad for the local economy and much worse for the former labourers. I wondered how long it would be before rice farming here became totally mechanised, and what impact that would have on unemployment figures in Isaan in particular, and elsewhere throughout Thailand.

Sometimes, the more things change locally the greater the far-reaching impacts can be.
 
Speaking as one who lives in a poor village, things haven't changed that much in the last 15 years that I can see. At least not for the old folks who stay here. The younger ones all seem to have flow the coop and holidays do not seem as busy as they used to, so I am guessing that less and less are coming back to see the oldies at New Year. There are more cars around and we finally got some tarmac road close to the village (a 1 KM section with dirt roads on either sides, so that should disappear in the rainy season!!). I think the cities have progressed much more than the villages.
 
Personally I think the lack of respect shown by the younger generation toward farangs, mainly, is due to their seeing things constantly on-line, where they are most of the time, (second in the world for time spent on Facebook and other social media sites). Farangs acting like idiots and assholes are seen much more often these days due to the ubiquitous use of mobile phone cameras and videos which are posted instantly on these media sites. The young generation see these videos and pics all the time now. It's no wonder they have a lack of respect for farangs. These trash farangs: violent, drunken fools, disrespectful of Thais and Thai culture, thieves, vandals, etc, are on the news media/social media almost daily now. It doesn't take much imagination to see why there is a lack of respect for us 'visitors', whether tourists or expats living here for ages.

JMHO on the subject.
 
Rice said:
Spot on Mike this is going viral all over the country,at the moment.

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket...r-attack-on-patong-toilet-attendant-62191.php
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Yup, saw that one. And the 2 guys ripping down the Thai flags, and even a video from here in Surin of a farang put in jail for a violent confrontation, swearing and yelling, pulling his pants down and mooning the jailer, and pissing on the floor of his cell. It's not just Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket. It is everywhere, and everyone here seems to have a smart phone and a propensity to film these acts of violence and crassness, and instantly upload it to the internet. Surin has changed as well. Not that stupid shit didn't happen the past 20 or more years I've been here, but it is now captured and disseminated almost instantly, leaving many Thais wondering why the hell they let these farangs into their country at all. This sort of behavior reflects on us all, and makes it harder to live a peaceful existence here. We are all painted with the same brush due to this sort of behavior.
 
Cent said:
Yup, saw that one. And the 2 guys ripping down the Thai flags, and even a video from here in Surin of a farang put in jail for a violent confrontation, swearing and yelling, pulling his pants down and mooning the jailer, and pissing on the floor of his cell. It's not just Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket. It is everywhere, and everyone here seems to have a smart phone and a propensity to film these acts of violence and crassness, and instantly upload it to the internet. Surin has changed as well. Not that stupid shit didn't happen the past 20 or more years I've been here, but it is now captured and disseminated almost instantly, leaving many Thais wondering why the hell they let these farangs into their country at all. This sort of behavior reflects on us all, and makes it harder to live a peaceful existence here. We are all painted with the same brush due to this sort of behavior.
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Precisely! Q.E.D.
 
No excuses for anyone attacking the toilet attendant, for any reason, although perhaps 10baht for a pee is somewhat over the top.. I thought for a moment, before reading the report, the attendant may have perhaps sprung up behind the farang having a pee and started to massage him....as they are known to do.
 
On the Thai social media they are saying he is 15 and was caught taking pics of the girls in the bathroom. That's why he was trying to hide his phone in the desk drawer, and why the farang took it and slapped him around, supposedly.
 
Cent said:
On the Thai social media they are saying he is 15 and was caught taking pics of the girls in the bathroom. That's why he was trying to hide his phone in the desk drawer, and why the farang took it and slapped him around, supposedly.
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Hmmmmm If that was the case, how would you, I or others react. A bit like the recent case of a bus driver hitting a Monk, who had slapped his wife, the bus conductress. Would you just tell these folk they were out of order. I think not!. Trouble is that it would be OK for a Thai to defend his woman, but if a farang did it, he would likely find himself in serious trouble and possibly deported.

There was a case in Pattaya some 20years ago, when a farang hit a Thai man, who had picked up a cat by the tail, swung it around his head many times and then launched it into the road. The farang was deported., the Thai got off scot - free, and the cat died.
 
nomad97 said:
They sure are. Well some things anyway. I can only comment in so far as my limited perspective drawn from experiences with my Thai wife and two daughters. Over the 13 years we have been together I think my wife has grown into a very confident and self assured young lady. She has dropped a lot or all of her dependency on the village way of life and, in particular, her dependency on fortune tellers, temple soothsayers, family loyalties and paternal influences. Moreover, she no longer cares what her family or her friends think about her as she has enough confidence in herself to see how false these relationships can be. Previously, emotional blackmail from close family members, the calling of bad names, may have been sufficient to prize open the purse strings and extract some money. Nowadays, they are politely and firmly told to "piss off!"
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Curious @nomad97 , as we're on the subject of Thai Culture.
What was your experience with "simsod" (simsot) upon wedding your wife more that a decade ago ?

Any others who have had an experience with marriage personally in Thailand on their own volition or on behalf of others (sons, daughters, friends) please feel free to chime in.
 
Neither simsod nor simsot at either of my Thai weddings. No village weddings either just two trips to Bangkok and then directly to the Amphur in Surin.
 
Coffee said:
Curious @nomad97 , as we're on the subject of Thai Culture.
What was your experience with "simsod" (simsot) upon wedding your wife more that a decade ago ?

Any others who have had an experience with marriage personally in Thailand on their own volition or on behalf of others (sons, daughters, friends) please feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...

Yorky said:
Neither simsod nor simsot at either of my Thai weddings. No village weddings either just two trips to Bangkok and then directly to the Amphur in Surin.
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Similar experience to Yorky. Definitely no sinsod or village wedding although we did have a blessing with a pigs head. Traveled to Bangkok to pick up my letter from the British Embassy (Freedom to Marry) and the following day went along to Ministry of Foreign Affairs to sort out all the other paperwork required to do the deed. We had planned to marry later at the Amphur. While looking through the various form I was approached by a young lady broker who asked if we wanted to get married that day. My fiance was with me, I popped the question (again) and the rest is history. All done and dusted by 16.00 that afternoon and with all the properly endorsed paperwork with translations from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. A One Stop Shop! Beats the hell out of getting married in the Amphur (or village wedding) with trips to Bangkok before and after to sort out all the paperwork.
 
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