Complaining in a Thai restaurant.....your advice please

J

johnb

Guest
We have been to various Korean BBQ places around Surin scores of times and have always been pleased with the food and value for money.

Today however, we went to one we have had good experiences in many times previously and it was shite! The charcoal was obviously duff and just didn't get hot enough to boil the stock and vegetables.

We waited a while, then I asked the staff if they could change it. They did. Another 20 minutes and same result. We ate hardly anything. I drank a beer and my wife and daughter shared half a large Coke.

I asked again of they could do something....mai ron, mai ron!! They changed the charcoal a second time....as nothing was happening after a further 10 minutes I asked for the check bin.

When it came I said, in a very nice and smiley way, that I only intended to pay 50%. My wife was, to say the least, most displeased with me...you can't do that! I just did, said I. She is still not talking to me....you know about those silences, guys!

I asked, ever so politely, to see the big Boss. He or she was clearly not on the premises but, after a frantic phone call, the staff offered me a 10% discount. In the end I accepted that. We are only talking about a bill of 385 baht in any case....but it was the principle of the thing!

So, guys, your advice......where did I go wrong? What cultural toes did I step on? How could I have handled this situation better?

I have ended up paying for 90% of a shite meal, have an empty stomach and a wife who is still not talking to me. Am I basically still too European? Have I not yet adapted to the Thai way of doing things? What would you have done?

Sincerely,
Hungry, Confused and Lonely!Cry3.
 
There does seem to be a reluctance to complain at restaurants, banks, government agencies, etc. in Thailand. Maybe it comes from the "teacher is always right" syndrome that is encouraged in schools here. The GL handles the complaints much better after many years of living in Farangland and even being annointed as an Australian (surely there is no higher honour).

A beautifully written account of the event, John. I am sure most of our members can identify with your predicament. Doubt there is any one right answer to your query.
 
johnb said:
We have been to various Korean BBQ places around Surin scores of times and have always been pleased with the food and value for money.

Today however, we went to one we have had good experiences in many times previously and it was shite! The charcoal was obviously duff and just didn't get hot enough to boil the stock and vegetables.

We waited a while, then I asked the staff if they could change it. They did. Another 20 minutes and same result. We ate hardly anything. I drank a beer and my wife and daughter shared half a large Coke.

I asked again of they could do something....mai ron, mai ron!! They changed the charcoal a second time....as nothing was happening after a further 10 minutes I asked for the check bin.

When it came I said, in a very nice and smiley way, that I only intended to pay 50%. My wife was, to say the least, most displeased with me...you can't do that! I just did, said I. She is still not talking to me....you know about those silences, guys!

I asked, ever so politely, to see the big Boss. He or she was clearly not on the premises but, after a frantic phone call, the staff offered me a 10% discount. In the end I accepted that. We are only talking about a bill of 385 baht in any case....but it was the principle of the thing!

So, guys, your advice......where did I go wrong? What cultural toes did I step on? How could I have handled this situation better?

I have ended up paying for 90% of a shite meal, have an empty stomach and a wife who is still not talking to me. Am I basically still too European? Have I not yet adapted to the Thai way of doing things? What would you have done?

Sincerely,
Hungry, Confused and Lonely!Cry3.
Click to expand...

Turning the other cheek is one of the more difficult tasks in Thailand.

But......... it is a lot worse than that because, by not doing so, you will alienate your spouse as well.

How on earth can a spouse lose face by their partner making a perfectly justified complaint ? Totally unreasonable - but it happens frequently and the spouse will appear to be 'siding' with the Thais. What you need is your spouse to be saying to the staff "My husband is right. That meal was below par and you were given 2 chances to correct it. You failed to do that so it is unreasonable to expect him to pay all of this bill - if any". Oh, how I wish I could hear that occasionally, rather than "why you shout like that, why you act like crazy Falang".

If only :confused:

As we are only too well aware, the Thais do not like confrontation. How can you expect a nation devoid of responsibility to be accountable for their actions. In the case of complaining there is no pain, there just "ïs". Do you think the Thais involved at the Korean BBQ would learn from that experience ? Not on your life.

In the west there is a fear factor (sometimes too much of one) and if you don't deliver, you are accountable. Put your hand in the fire once, you don't do it again. The same learning process doesn't seem to apply in Thailand. Cause and effect, risk and reward etc are not concepts that exist here.

What to do ?

I haven't got a clue because you are likely to be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Go with the flow on the evening and react in accordance with the level of bravery you are feeling.

Plan B in the above scenario is to ask your wife if the BBQ is OK. If she says "mai ron" then I would ask her if she would like it changed. If "yes" I would get her to ask for it be changed etc, etc.

I have a feeling though John that you would still finish up second best !! :rolleyes:
 
CO-CO said:
Turning the other cheek is one of the more difficult tasks in Thailand.

But......... it is a lot worse than that because, by not doing so, you will alienate your spouse as well.

How on earth can a spouse lose face by their partner making a perfectly justified complaint ? Totally unreasonable - but it happens frequently and the spouse will appear to be 'siding' with the Thais. What you need is your spouse to be saying to the staff "My husband is right. That meal was below par and you were given 2 chances to correct it. You failed to do that so it is unreasonable to expect him to pay all of this bill - if any". Oh, how I wish I could hear that occasionally, rather than "why you shout like that, why you act like crazy Falang".

If only :confused:

As we are only too well aware, the Thais do not like confrontation. How can you expect a nation devoid of responsibility to be accountable for their actions. In the case of complaining there is no pain, there just "ïs". Do you think the Thais involved at the Korean BBQ would learn from that experience ? Not on your life.

In the west there is a fear factor (sometimes too much of one) and if you don't deliver, you are accountable. Put your hand in the fire once, you don't do it again. The same learning process doesn't seem to apply in Thailand. Cause and effect, risk and reward etc are not concepts that exist here.

What to do ?

I haven't got a clue because you are likely to be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Go with the flow on the evening and react in accordance with the level of bravery you are feeling.

Plan B in the above scenario is to ask your wife if the BBQ is OK. If she says "mai ron" then I would ask her if she would like it changed. If "yes" I would get her to ask for it be changed etc, etc.

I have a feeling though John that you would still finish up second best !! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

A shrewd analysis, Coco, and much as I feared! I am damned either way, still!
 
AussieBill said:
One of the great values of our SurinFarang Forum is that you are not really alone while serving your period of penalty silence. We are here to understand and help each other - something like LifeLine!
Click to expand...

You guys make great agony aunts. I am bucked to know I have such substantial shoulders to cry on!
 
I think most Thais would pay the bill without a word, and simply never go to that restaurant again. No tip, of course.

That's what I would have done, not having a wife. If I had a wife, I would give her the money, say, "Get a discount if you can," and not blame her if she doesn't. And still never go to that restaurant again.
 
Interesting one.

My wife would have sided with me, in fact she has done in the past.

Is there maybe, and I would like to generalise here and not point any fingers at anyone, a feeling that as there was a "rich farang" paying the bill that is was silly to ask for a discount?

Does a wife of a farang not realise the true value of money? It would be nice to teach some people the saying " take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves".

On the other side of the coin, whenever I have seen Thais complain in a restaurant it has always been those that seem fairly wealthy.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
Yes JohnB, you are damned either way. After 10 years of happy married life I still do not understand why I am not allowed to complain about bad service or shoddy goods. If I do I get the cold shoulder and wall of silence from "She who must be obeyed" too.

A little story to illustrate the point. On 25th July 2013 I posted a cheque from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, aka the Tax Man, to my bank in the Isle of Man. This was a tax refund and for me quite a rare event. Not wishing to lose the cheque I decided, at great cost (950 THB), to send this EMS Courier Service. One month later I checked my bank account and I was surprised to find that the cheque had not been credited to my account. The lady in the receiving section was very helpful over the phone and promised to ring me back the next day. I gave her the tracking number for the courier service. The following day, we both had a good laugh as we had both discovered that the tracked letter started out from Surin Post Office on 25th July and went to Swampy only to be returned to the Surin Post Office 4 days later.

Now you may be forgiven for thinking that the Post Master would have sent a card to the sender advising of non-delivery, or even ringing the contact telephone number, both clearly marked on the envelope. After all this was "Express Mail Service" by courier and at 950 THB expensive to send. Wrong! Not a dicky bird. Paid visit to the Post Office and instructed by "She who must be obeyed" to remain in the car. She would take care of the enquiry. Yes, she found the letter on the Post master's desk and politely asked why such an important letter had not been delivered. She also asked why we had not been informed of the non-delivery especially as the contact address and telephone were clearly marked on the letter. He replied that they did not deliver to the Isle of Man by courier service and this was the reason the letter had been returned. He had no response for the second part and offered a weak apology.

You are right, I would have blown my top at the total incompetence of the Post master. If they did not offer a courier service to the Isle of Man why was this letter accepted in the first place? Secondly, why couldn't the Post Master pick up the phone and advise accordingly?

The computer printout from the tracking service did say that a full refund would be made for failed delivery. So, my wife ask for the refund only to be told that he would have to get authorisation from Bangkok to do so. Can you come back in one week please. WTF!?

I (myself) went into the Post Office a couple of days ago to ask for the refund, two weeks after the initial confrontation. "No, no money yet, please come back in another week". While I did not quite explode I really felt I needed to let off some steam. I told him that I was not happy and that I would return in a week, with a policeman if necessary, to get back my money from this robbing toad. So there you have it, now 6 or 7 weeks later and still no money back for the non-delivery of a couriered letter service to the UK.

P.S. I dare not tell the wife that I expressed some dissatisfaction. I think I will keep that to myself.

:confused:
 
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isanbirder said:
I think most Thais would pay the bill without a word, and simply never go to that restaurant again. No tip, of course.

That's what I would have done, not having a wife. If I had a wife, I would give her the money, say, "Get a discount if you can," and not blame her if she doesn't. And still never go to that restaurant again.
Click to expand...


And that is why things will never improve in Thailand.
 
nomad97 said:
Yes JohnB, you are damned either way. After 10 years of happy married life I still do not understand why I am not allowed to complain about bad service or shoddy goods. If I do I get the cold shoulder and wall of silence from "She who must be obeyed" too.

A little story to illustrate the point. On 25th July 2013 I posted a cheque from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, aka the Tax Man, to my bank in the Isle of Man. This was a tax refund and for me quite a rare event. Not wishing to lose the cheque I decided, at great cost (950 THB), to send this EMS Courier Service. One month later I checked my bank account and I was surprised to find that the cheque had not been credited to my account. The lady in the receiving section was very helpful over the phone and promised to ring me back the next day. I gave her the tracking number for the courier service. The following day, we both had a good laugh as we had both discovered that the tracked letter started out from Surin Post Office on 25th July and went to Swampy only to be returned to the Surin Post Office 4 days later.

Now you may be forgiven for thinking that the Post Master would have sent a card to the sender advising of non-delivery, or even ringing the contact telephone number, both clearly marked on the envelope. After all this was "Express Mail Service" by courier and at 950 THB expensive to send. Wrong! Not a dicky bird. Paid visit to the Post Office and instructed by "She who must be obeyed" to remain in the car. She would take care of the enquiry. Yes, she found the letter on the Post master's desk and politely asked why such an important letter had not been delivered. She also asked why we had not been informed of the non-delivery especially as the contact address and telephone were clearly marked on the letter. He replied that they did not deliver to the Isle of Man by courier service and this was the reason the letter had been returned. He had no response for the second part and offered a weak apology.

You are right, I would have blown my top at the total incompetence of the Post master. If they did not offer a courier service to the Isle of Man why was this letter accepted in the first place? Secondly, why couldn't the Post Master pick up the phone and advise accordingly?

The computer printout from the tracking service did say that a full refund would be made for failed delivery. So, my wife ask for the refund only to be told that he would have to get authorisation from Bangkok to do so. Can you come back in one week please. WTF!?

I (myself) went into the Post Office a couple of days ago to ask for the refund, two weeks after the initial confrontation. "No, no money yet, please come back in another week". While I did not quite explode I really felt I needed to let off some steam. I told him that I was not happy and that I would return in a week, with a policeman if necessary, to get back my money from this robbing toad. So there you have it, now 6 or 7 weeks later and still no money back for the non-delivery of a couriered letter service to the UK.

P.S. I dare not tell the wife that I expressed some dissatisfaction. I think I will keep that to myself.

:confused:
Click to expand...

When I have a problem, whether it be in a restaurant, Makro, Big C or even on one occasion at the Korat Passport Office, and another at Nong Nooch in Pattaya it is my wife who is sent to the car and told to remain whilst the "farang" resolves the problem.

To date I have a 100% success rate! :rolleyes: It does help to speak a little Thai -which only gets better when one is angry inside!
 
johnb said:
We have been to various Korean BBQ places around Surin scores of times and have always been pleased with the food and value for money.

Today however, we went to one we have had good experiences in many times previously and it was shite! The charcoal was obviously duff and just didn't get hot enough to boil the stock and vegetables.

We waited a while, then I asked the staff if they could change it. They did. Another 20 minutes and same result. We ate hardly anything. I drank a beer and my wife and daughter shared half a large Coke.

I asked again of they could do something....mai ron, mai ron!! They changed the charcoal a second time....as nothing was happening after a further 10 minutes I asked for the check bin.

When it came I said, in a very nice and smiley way, that I only intended to pay 50%. My wife was, to say the least, most displeased with me...you can't do that! I just did, said I. She is still not talking to me....you know about those silences, guys!

I asked, ever so politely, to see the big Boss. He or she was clearly not on the premises but, after a frantic phone call, the staff offered me a 10% discount. In the end I accepted that. We are only talking about a bill of 385 baht in any case....but it was the principle of the thing!

So, guys, your advice......where did I go wrong? What cultural toes did I step on? How could I have handled this situation better?

I have ended up paying for 90% of a shite meal, have an empty stomach and a wife who is still not talking to me. Am I basically still too European? Have I not yet adapted to the Thai way of doing things? What would you have done?

Sincerely,
Hungry, Confused and Lonely!Cry3.
Click to expand...




John,

It's a no win situation. As a Thai your wife does not like the confrontation. The way they handle it, usually, is to pay up, leave, and never go back and give their custom again to the place. They'll tell their friends and complain to friends and family, basically warning those they know not to go there as well. Generally speaking. They seem to pick and choose their battles differently than we farang do.

Basically I would pay, leave, and tell my wife "Well, we'll never go to this place again will we honey?" She will totally agree with you.

The thing is the staff are not at fault in this scenario you describe. The staff are also not able to do any 'discounting' actually, and would likely have to pay any difference if they did out of their own pocket, or all of it if you just refused to pay and walked out on the bin. The 'boss' will get his money no matter what. I would like to know which Korean BBQ place this was, so I can avoid the place. I doubt they will be open long though if this happens frequently.

These places survive because they are cheaper than hell. And they use the cheapest ingredients and needed materials they can get away with.

The one Korean BBQ I used to go to with my wife and family is the 'Ah Ee 2' which is on the road where the schools are, across the street from them just before the traffic lights. (Ah Ee 1, the original, is the place near the Chevy dealership up by the 'Surin King' traffic rotary monument, across from the 'lake' where the paddle boats used to be.)

As Coco said, you are damned if you do and damned (in your wallet at least) if you don't. Mainly the best option is to take it on the chin and move on. You know your wife. If she hates this sort of confrontational complaint and it upsets her, and you don't want her to not speak to you, then keep that in mind when running into this sort of stuff. I choose my battles as well, depending on how much it will cost me. :)

The 'principal of the thing' does not seem to be a Thai cultural trait. They have different principals. (Mai pen rai my ass!)

Remind me to tell you the story of the rotary saw and the weed whacker I bought at Makro when they first opened here in Surin when I see you Sunday at Norby's.

Cheers,

Mike
 
isanbirder said:
I think most Thais would pay the bill without a word, and simply never go to that restaurant again. No tip, of course.

That's what I would have done, not having a wife. If I had a wife, I would give her the money, say, "Get a discount if you can," and not blame her if she doesn't. And still never go to that restaurant again.
Click to expand...


I considered that as a "Plan C" in my earlier post.

I discounted it because it is "final'. There is a distinct possibility that (at some point) you will receive crap food and/or crap service at a restaurant in Thailand - especially, but not exclusively, in the provinces.

By voting with your feet you are cutting off all access to what may be perfectly good meals. John stated that he had previously had good experiences.

Anyone deserves a second chance - the option to walk is retained.

If the next visit was a repeat of the recent one, I would suggest that it would handled slightly differently based on the experience of the earlier visit. We Falangs can do that - learn from experience. :rolleyes:
 
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