European pension rules could help UK Expats?

Merlin

Merlin

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I stumbled on this Facebook post a few minutes ago, and it seems to be an attempt to address the problem that UK expat pensioners share with Danes, where our State pensions are treated differently compared with our stay-at-home friends. Ours don't increase as theirs do, which seems increasingly unfair as time and inflation erodes the buying-power. It's a Google translation, but makes a lot of sense. Read on...

  1. Hello everyone. As you know, I have already started the group of Holger Danish,'s and public. Now I'd like to ask you all if you don't want to help us by joining the group. We would just like to change the new so-called pension reform that the government will have implemented. We who reside outside the eea will be affected by it again. As it is now, the government has been informed by the European Union that they have to follow the rules in the European Union which say that no distinction should be made between pensioners wherever they live in the world. Denmark does, and now we think that is enough. Then Denmark changes the rules and gets it postponed from the European Union. Then there will be a new injunction and Denmark will change again. And that's how it goes. Now we are trying to persuade Denmark to stop it and, if possible, go to court with it. Then you will not be able to support membership. It doesn't cost anything, nor does it cost anything. We just want as many members as possible to get a free trial in court. In advance, I'd like to thank you all for your understanding of the case. Søren Larsen. And if you want, you can't pørge all your friends about the same thing. Snuller.
Here's a link to his post if anyone is interested: https://www.facebook.com/soren.larsen.121?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser

p.s. I think "pørge" in his last sentence might mean "ask."
 
I believe the Swedes pensions are also treated differently to those in the UK. From what I have been told, Swedes must be resident in Sweden for at least 6 months a year to receive any state pension,

There have been rumours for some time that this system will be introduced for UK pensions, thereby cancelling out the current frozen pensions.

If this should happen it would likely affect those currently under 60, with those over 60 and not yet at retirement age, and those currently receiving pensions experiencing no change Having said that however, it should be noted that UK bereavement benefits for many overseas widows, including those in Thailand, were scrapped with very ;little notice..

The apparent instruction to the Danes, outlined above, clearly did not apply to the UK, when the matter was heard by the EEC Court of Human rights. I doubt there will be any change to the Danish system.
 
With State Pensions 'pots' under pressure in many countries in the world, governments are looking at ways to reduce the pension bill, not increase it. Indeed, legislation in the UK has raised the retirement age for men and women from 65 & 60 respectively, so that by 2020 the national retirement age will be 66 for both men and women (See Note below). Moreover, there are plans to increase the retirement age in steps to 67 and 68 in the following 20 years or so. Therefore, I firmly believe that any legislation to increase pension benefits for expats pensioners with 'frozen' pensions, has as much chance of being approved as the Lady in Red has of receiving a Royal Pardon! I will go further, I think she has a better chance of receiving a Royal Pardon than we will ever have of receiving an index linked pension from the British Government. We may yet lose what we already receive but I do not think will ever see an increase to our monthly cheque.


Note: The Act (UK) amends the timetable for increasing the state pension age to 66. Under the PA 2007, the increase to 66 was due to take effect between 2004 and 2026. This Act will bring forward the increase so that state pension age for both men and women will begin rising from 65 in December 2018 to reach 66 by October 2020. As a result of bringing forward the increase to 66, the timetable contained in the PA 1995 for equalising women’s state pension age with men’s at 65 by April 2020 will be accelerated, so that women’s state pension age reaches 65 by November 2018.[6]
 
When Peu Thai (or by whatever name it uses) wins the next election, I would expect to see the Lady in Red + brother exonerated. Not instantly, but over the course of the parliament, and as a sweetener for the next election.

No hope moneywise for us British farangs though.Nobody cares about us!
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
When Peu Thai (or by whatever name it uses) wins the next election, I would expect to see the Lady in Red + brother exonerated. Not instantly, but over the course of the parliament, and as a sweetener for the next election.

No hope moneywise for us British farangs though.Nobody cares about us!
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I can't see that happening.


The elite of Thailand are still the elite of Thailand and they would not accept a return of the Shinawatra clan.
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
When Peu Thai (or by whatever name it uses) wins the next election, I would expect to see the Lady in Red + brother exonerated. Not instantly, but over the course of the parliament, and as a sweetener for the next election.

No hope moneywise for us British farangs though.Nobody cares about us!
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Nick, You have seemed to have forgot what actual event lead Thailand to this very point in time. The Suthep yellow shirt whistle movement was formed after The lady in red tried to push through a broad amnesty law that would have pardoned her brother and all others involved.

Sorry, I really don't think she or her brother will be exonerated ever.
Not while as CO-Co puts it The elite of Thailand is still the elite.
 
Rice said:
Nick, You have seemed to have forgot what actual event lead Thailand to this very point in time. The Suthep yellow shirt whistle movement was formed after The lady in red tried to push through a broad amnesty law that would have pardoned her brother and all others involved.

Sorry, I really don't think she or her brother will be exonerated ever.
Not while as CO-Co puts it The elite of Thailand is still the elite.
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Someone at a higher level, who was, and maybe still is, close to Thaksin, could make the decision. He would not likely be in Thailand to witness any possible fallout
 
The word on the street is to wait until after October (read between the lines). The reds and the yellows have been pretty dormant of late but that could well be about to change. They will not be in hibernation forever.
 
nomad97 said:
The word on the street is to wait until after October (read between the lines). The reds and the yellows have been pretty dormant of late but that could well be about to change. They will not be in hibernation forever.
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I heard that crap almost a year ago ........ at that time it was said wait until the death.

I personally see no likelihood of unrest and the authorities are well placed to quash any such activity.
 
CO-CO said:
I heard that crap almost a year ago ........ at that time it was said wait until the death.

I personally see no likelihood of unrest and the authorities are well placed to quash any such activity.
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I believe there is a strong undercurrent of unrest, which will rise to the fore if the big man delays a general election any further. The political parties must be allowed to get their act togetherr and communicate their agendas to the public. Hopefully this will be allowed come November..
 
I think any undercurrent of unrest lies with political parties and a few diehards. I think the bilk of the proletariat done really give a flying fart. If/when the next election comes round they will no doubt follow the 500 note....... the vast majority seem to have loyalty to the greenback rater than any political affiliation.

Whilst I have always been in favour of democracy it is clearly abused in Thailand and, for me, the junta appears to be making progress in several areas in Thailand. Expect them to eradicate corruption, not a cat in hell's chance - make a start in reducing it, maybe.
 
I tend to agree with Co-Co, I don't sense any great unhappiness
I guess a test will come with what is going to be a poor rice harvest, I am assuming the Government will recognise this and increase the sweetner.
 
CO-CO said:
I think any undercurrent of unrest lies with political parties and a few diehards. I think the bilk of the proletariat done really give a flying fart. If/when the next election comes round they will no doubt follow the 500 note....... the vast majority seem to have loyalty to the greenback rater than any political affiliation.

.
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Very true They dont give a flying fart. . But when the red shirts ask for support, demonstratione etc, when all expenses and extra is paid the great unwashed spring into action. Its all about money.
 
To return to the topic... please... UK pensioners may find the information in the following House of Commons Briefing Paper, dated 13th April 2017, informative: http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01457/SN01457.pdf

The Paper states that there are some 400,000 ex-pat British pensioners affected by the situation. That suggests the cost of our pension provision to be no more than £3.32 billion per annum, and that an increase of 3% would add less than £100million to the annual cost of pension provision - not a huge sum in the context that the TOTAL UK pension payment made is £91.6 billion, and that our increase would be just 0.001% of that. The actual cost of expat pension payments is significantly less than suggested, due to that being based on current pension rates which doesn't take into account that many of the 400,000 recipients will have had their payments frozen at lower levels for several years (i.e. they receive a lot less than newly-retired British resident pensioners.)

Consider that the ruling against our receipt of annual increases was judged to be political rather than judicial (though it hasn't featured as such with successive governments of all persuasions.)

Consider also that, although the European Court of Human Rights dismissed a case against the prejudicial treatment of those of us living in countries where there are no reciprocal agreements, Soren Larsen refers obliquely to EU rules, and anyone who also feels that our treatment is unfair should support any movement to have it corrected, pre-Brexit.

It also discusses the post-Brexit position of those with state pensions from EU countries, which some in our midst may find useful.
 
I am still at a loss to understand what the "reciprocal agreement" is and why it doesn't exist. The UK has a reciprocal agreement with Thailand as far as income tax is concerned but beyond that, I am lost.
 
In Asia, only the Phillipine widows can claim bereavement benefits. I imagine the same applies to state pension...no frozen pensions.
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
In Asia, only the Phillipine widows can claim bereavement benefits. I imagine the same applies to state pension...no frozen pensions.
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RON My name’s Ron, I live in America – they call us 'limeys'.

BOB G’day, my name’s bob, I live in Australia – they call us 'poms'.

RON I retired seven years ago and moved to America for the lifestyle.

BOB I retired seven years ago and moved to Australia to be with my grandchildren.

RON America rebelled in 1776 and left the Commonwealth, but the UK still treats me as well as if I’d stayed in the UK. My pension is index linked.

BOB Australia is a member of the old Commonwealth. Many British pensioners come here to be with their families but the UK treats them like outcasts. Their pensions are frozen.

RON When I retired in 1999 my British pension was £66.75 per week.

BOB When I retired in 1999 my British pension was £66.75 per week.

RON I now get £84.25 per week.

BOB I still get £66.75 per week. That’s what I mean when I say that my pension is frozen.

RON They claim that it would cost a lot of money to index all pensions.

BOB Not a lot of money, less than one percent of the annual pensions budget.

Britain pays fully indexed pensions to half its expat pensioners – to the USA and the Philippines, the whole of the EU, including the new members from East Europe, Turkey, Israel, and Bosnia, but, although we all paid the same contributions, it withholds the up-rating of its pensioners in the Commonwealth – all to save less than one percent of the pensions budget.

There are people here in their 90’s still getting less than ten pounds a week; the same as when they retired.

Where’s the justice in that?

See: http://britishpensions.org.au/frozenindexed.htm
 
Spot on Nomad.. It was taken to the European Court of Human Rights some years back but was rejected,. Little hope of pensions being unfrozen. Worst case scenario, is that if they do change the rules and require pensioners to live in the UK for minimum 6 months a year (as some other countries do) to receive any state pension at all, It could apply to those already receiving pensions. I somehow doubt that, but it could affect those currently around 60 years of age. And for those in their 30s/40s, there will probably be no government pensions when they reach around 70, as the Muslims will be in power, and will only pay out pensions to their own kind.
 
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