Bank fees and exchange companies lesson

[CO-CO]

I have always understood, that if using a joint account you would need ฿1,600,000.00, twice the amount of a sole account.

Previously that had been allowed by certain Immigration offices; I do not think that is now the case.

Why would anyone do that??

 

[CO-CO]

Interesting.

Different countries may have differing rules applied to joint bank accounts, but most (if not all) regard the balance on a joint account to be treated as an asset of the surviving account holder(s) in the event of the death of another. This means that the balance (or a share of it) is not treated as an asset of the deceased and is excluded from that person's estate. As a consequence, if the deceased had a will which stated that the assets held by the deceased would be inherited by a third party - a spouse or other family member(s) for example - they could not claim any part of the joint bank account assets however hard they protested, assuming that the joint account was set up with "a right of survivorship." On the other hand, a joint account set up and specifically marked as a “convenience” account, the other owner(s) will no longer have access to the funds when one owner dies. Instead, the entire account and any contained funds will be treated as the deceased’s assets and, thus, part of their estate, subject to the probate of the will.

Indeed.

You will have a job varying the standard terms of most bank mandates (although a standard mandate could conceivably include your "convenience" account terms.

You will understand that some smart arses might try to avoid, say, inheritance tax by keeping unusually large sums of money in a joint account that would ‘normally’ pass to the surviving account holder.

 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Indeed.

You will have a job varying the standard terms of most bank mandates (although a standard mandate could conceivably include your "convenience" account terms.

You will understand that some smart arses might try to avoid, say, inheritance tax by keeping unusually large sums of money in a joint account that would ‘normally’ pass to the surviving account holder.

I don't think Thailand has inheritance tax..............YET

 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

RELEASING BANK MONEY ON DEATH OF DEPOSITOR - THAILAND

I have today been asked to assist a local widow whose Scandinavian husband died last week. It seems he had 2 accounts here in Thailand with Kasikorn and 2 with SCB.

A friend of the widow, who works for Kasikorn has apparently told her that the bank will release money to the widow as long as the account balance is less than 200,000bt, on production of just the death and marriage certificates. She has yet to visit SCB

Not yet put to the test, but I somehow doubt that can happen.

How does the bank know the husband did not make a Will leaving money to someone other than the wife?

Could the wife withhold the Will if she is not named?



Under the Thai intestacy rules, (ie no Will) a widow only receives half of the money/assets, the other 50% going to family back home in pecking order.........parents/children. siblings etc etc. Normally for any amount a Thai lawyer needs to obtain Thai probate.

She will visit the bank tomorrow and I will update when I hear the result

UPDATE

Having made anonmymous enquiries with Kasikorn Bank, I was somewhat amazed to receive a reply, part of which is shown below.

It seems that despite the Thai Intestacy rules, which have statutory heirs, Kasikorn are prepared to release funds direct to a wife/widow of the deceased, where the bank deposit is less than 200,000Baht. This regardless of the laws concerning deceaseds children and other family members still living.

In the case of a deposit amount on the account is less than 200,000 baht, the person who requests to receive the deposit of the deceased depositor is the statutory heir, and they have the right to inherit respectively as the ranking shown below:

- 1st : spouse (husband or wife who registered the marriage certificate)
- 2nd : son/child
- 3rd : father and/or mother

And the person can contact any Kasikornbank branch and prepare supporting documents for requesting the deposit as follow:

- Death certificate
- ID card or passport of the executor(s), and house registration of all statutory heirs, and/or other statutory heir relationship documents (if any)
- Marriage certificate of the deceased (if any)
- Passbook (If any)

 

[lightfoot]

Curious, the way I'm reading your post there is not a bank in Thailand you can name a beneficiary wife to receive the full amount of say, 800,000 baht retirement funds deposited into Thai bank ?

 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Curious, the way I'm reading your post there is not a bank in Thailand you can name a beneficiary wife to receive the full amount of say, 800,000 baht retirement funds deposited into Thai bank ?

So far as I am aware the only way a beneficiary wife may legally obtain a large amount from her late husbands deposit is to have a joint account. Most wives ensure they can access the money on death (in many cases before death) using an ATM card and occasionally online banking. One wife drained her husbands 800,000bt account visa extension money, anticipating his death, but he went slowly and only died the day before his extension was due!

The Kasikorn bank situation where a wife is automatically granted money held in an account (where the account is less than 200,000bt, goes against Thailands Inheritance Intestacy rules and in my book they are breaking the law, Nevertheless in most cases I am sure that is what the deceased husband would have wanted and its what happens automatically in the UK. GL indicated Bangkok Bank did the same, but Siam Commercial will not!

 

[Yorky]

I'm afraid I'm still at a loss regarding this mandate that ceases upon my death. I've never seen this mandate therefore I am unaware what it actually states. Obviously I'm unaware of who authorised and signed the mandate.

 

[Yorky]

... but he went slowly and only died the day before his extension was due!

That is classic!

I hope that I go the same way.

If he had died the day after, who would have been responsible for paying his fine?

 

[Yorky]

So far as I am aware the only way a beneficiary wife may legally obtain a large amount from her late husbands deposit is to have a joint account. Most wives ensure they can access the money on death (in many cases before death) using an ATM card and occasionally online banking. One wife drained her husbands 800,000bt account visa extension money, anticipating his death, but he went slowly and only died the day before his extension was due!

The Kasikorn bank situation where a wife is automatically granted money held in an account (where the account is less than 200,000bt, goes against Thailands Inheritance Intestacy rules and in my book they are breaking the law, Nevertheless in most cases I am sure that is what the deceased husband would have wanted and its what happens automatically in the UK. GL indicated Bangkok Bank did the same, but Siam Commercial will not!

I still remember Mrs Dow explaining to me many years ago that the reason Immigration required a new Embassy letter for the extension every year (not the 5 year old original that I had) was that the British Government were concerned that widows would fail to declare their husband's death and continue to claim the husband's pension.

I really couldn't be arsed to explain to her that dead Farangs do not legally need to apply for an extension of stay.

 

[nomad97]

I have been following this conversation with interest. I bank with Bangkok Bank, as does my wife among others. I explained the gist of the conversation and the problem with her getting her hands on any money that may remain in my sole account. I asked her to go and have a word with the manager of Bangkok Bank in Robinson's last week. She did. She is the sole beneficiary in my will and she seemed reasonably assured that it would not be a problem. Moreover, she said she would log onto my internet banking account and transfer any money to her account as soon as I popped my clogs and certainly before the bank was aware of my death. I have shown her how to do this and she is quite capable of doing so. Don't worry, I am not concerned with my wife draining my account while I am still alive. With 2 teenage daughters in the family, I do not get to keep a lot of money in my account anyway. Besides, if I wanted to stash some money away for myself, there are other ways to do that.

 

[Tom P]

Sitting in a hotel room in Bangkok with some spare time, on route for my annual return to USA for the 'summer', I just got around to reconciling my currency transfers, and discovered concealed bank fees $$$ I had not expected.

Initially, I set up a Bangkok Bank account at a branch in Bangkok, where I kept the required 800,000฿ on deposit in order to qualify for a retirement visa. I moved quite a lot of US dollars there over 2 years via xe.com to fund building a house and various farm and family structures and equipment. I was very busy, and didn't bother to audit the account.

I became dissatisfied with BB's service, and their requirement that I show up in person in Bangkok at the branch where my account was established to change anything, and so I set up a K-Bank account in Ta Tum. I was able to make that a sole account as required to meet the visa deposit requirement, but with my wife as beneficiary, which Bangkok Bank would not do for me. I have heard that it is difficult to impossible to get BB to give your sole account money back to your Thai wife when you die. They like to keep it.

I began trying another major currency exchange company, called 'Wise.com', and started comparing just how much net ฿ I got compared with xe.com. That is when I discovered that Bangkok Bank was taking a hidden fee off all transfers from xe.com to themselves or K-Bank. I'd send 600,000 ฿ over, and only get 598,400 ฿ in the account. No fee is indicated, but it's there. However, when I sent the same money over via Wise to K-Bank, it all was credited, no fee. I just queried xe.com and they said 'we sent it, and have no control over incoming bank fees'. I estimate that the Bangkok Bank fees amounted to close to 25,000 ฿ over two years. Foolish me for not auditing earlier.

So now, sayonara to Bangkok Bank and xe.com. So far, I have found Wise to have good rates and superior performance (money is credited here within 1-2 days, very fast). Others here may have their own favorites, and it may depend on where you're sending from. The moral is: shop around, reconcile bank accounts, and trust but verify. And set up bank accounts close to home.

I'm with BB and use Wise for my transfers. BB have never taken a commisioin from my tranfers. One thing to note. When selecting the reason for transfer in Wise I always select "funds for long term stay in Thailand. The narrative then changes to " international funds transfer" which is what immigration like to see.

 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

I have been following this conversation with interest. I bank with Bangkok Bank, as does my wife among others. I explained the gist of the conversation and the problem with her getting her hands on any money that may remain in my sole account. I asked her to go and have a word with the manager of Bangkok Bank in Robinson's last week. She did. She is the sole beneficiary in my will and she seemed reasonably assured that it would not be a problem. Moreover, she said she would log onto my internet banking account and transfer any money to her account as soon as I popped my clogs and certainly before the bank was aware of my death. I have shown her how to do this and she is quite capable of doing so. Don't worry, I am not concerned with my wife draining my account while I am still alive. With 2 teenage daughters in the family, I do not get to keep a lot of money in my account anyway. Besides, if I wanted to stash some money away for myself, there are other ways to do that.

I think I would want to be more than just reasonably assured. Bank staff change! I would want it in writing if It was necessary for that to happen.

As for transferring money immediately following your death...........BE CAREFUL. Bank computers monitor accounts, and if one or more "unusual transfer" takes place, the account will be locked and Mr Nomad will be asked to come to the branch to ensure all is in order. I have seen this happen. Been battling UK's Nationwide for the past 2 months to have money released to the widow (with probate) because the account was previously locked following a large withdrawal.

Just make a series or small transfers/withdrawals in line with normal practice over days/weeks and leave a few hundred baht on the account! No need to ever inform the bank of the death.

 

[lightfoot]

So far as I am aware the only way a beneficiary wife may legally obtain a large amount from her late husbands deposit is to have a joint account. Most wives ensure they can access the money on death (in many cases before death) using an ATM card and occasionally online banking. One wife drained her husbands 800,000bt account visa extension money, anticipating his death, but he went slowly and only died the day before his extension was due!

The Kasikorn bank situation where a wife is automatically granted money held in an account (where the account is less than 200,000bt, goes against Thailands Inheritance Intestacy rules and in my book they are breaking the law, Nevertheless in most cases I am sure that is what the deceased husband would have wanted and its what happens automatically in the UK. GL indicated Bangkok Bank did the same, but Siam Commercial will not!

 

[lightfoot]

Opinions, on opening an account with 199 K baht or a little less with Kasikorn bank to tide a widow over with cash for expenses. Let's say hiring a lawyer for probate and maybe a small funeral, I don't think anybody wants to stay in the freezer too long.
Keeping the remainder of the 800 K in Bangkok Bank or another of your choice and obtaining two letters, one from each bank to verify the funds in the bank books for temporary permission to stay in Thailand for one year.
Maybe five accounts Kasikorn bank totaling 800 K, name your wife as beneficiary, I wonder what the bank and immigration would say about this ?

Anybody keep retirement funds in more than one Bank account to show Thai immigration ?

 

[Yorky]

Anybody keep retirement funds in more than one Bank account to show Thai immigration ?

I have done in the past. One savings account and one fixed deposit account both in my sole name. It took a minute or two to persuade the bank teller to list the balance of both accounts on one letter but after that was done, there was no hiccough with Immigration. I think that this was around 6 or 7 years ago.

 

[Wombat]

I'm with BB and use Wise for my transfers. BB have never taken a commisioin from my tranfers. One thing to note. When selecting the reason for transfer in Wise I always select "funds for long term stay in Thailand. The narrative then changes to " international funds transfer" which is what immigration like to see.

Tom, I once had a problem with Ozforex when sending money from Australia when I used living expenses as a reason for transfer. They told me it couldn't be done due to some government rules and froze my account until I updated my details. It was a blessing in the end as it forced me to start using Wise. I used sending money to family as my reason but, now that I'm back here, I should change the reason but am a little worried that I'll get my account blocked again.

What country are you transferring from?

 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Opinions, on opening an account with 199 K baht or a little less with Kasikorn bank to tide a widow over with cash for expenses. Let's say hiring a lawyer for probate and maybe a small funeral, I don't think anybody wants to stay in the freezer too long.
Keeping the remainder of the 800 K in Bangkok Bank or another of your choice and obtaining two letters, one from each bank to verify the funds in the bank books for temporary permission to stay in Thailand for one year.
Maybe five accounts Kasikorn bank totaling 800 K, name your wife as beneficiary, I wonder what the bank and immigration would say about this ?

Anybody keep retirement funds in more than one Bank account to show Thai immigration ?

Not sure what immigration would say. But 5 Kasikorn accounts (presumably with less than 200,000bt in each) would likely only work for widow withdrawal if the accounts were hels at different bank branches. I still am not sure a wife can be named on an account as beneficiary. Joint account may be the way to go,and if worried about her earlier access, leave the PIN number with someone you trust.

 

[FERRET]

Tom, I once had a problem with Ozforex when sending money from Australia when I used living expenses as a reason for transfer. They told me it couldn't be done due to some government rules and froze my account until I updated my details. It was a blessing in the end as it forced me to start using Wise. I used sending money to family as my reason but, now that I'm back here, I should change the reason but am a little worried that I'll get my account blocked again.

What country are you transferring from?

Womby, I use pension/ salary monthly and, for the larger transferees, ( house ) I use property purchase--through OFX. Never had an issue.

 

[Tom P]

Tom, I once had a problem with Ozforex when sending money from Australia when I used living expenses as a reason for transfer. They told me it couldn't be done due to some government rules and froze my account until I updated my details. It was a blessing in the end as it forced me to start using Wise. I used sending money to family as my reason but, now that I'm back here, I should change the reason but am a little worried that I'll get my account blocked again.

What country are you transferring from?

UK

 

[nomad97]

I'm with BB and use Wise for my transfers. BB have never taken a commisioin from my tranfers. One thing to note. When selecting the reason for transfer in Wise I always select "funds for long term stay in Thailand. The narrative then changes to " international funds transfer" which is what immigration like to see.

I use option 3., "Funds for monthly living expenses". That has not been an issue with Immigration either. Mind you, I can support these transfers with my slips from my 3 pension providers.