Solar Installation

Discussion in 'Isaan Homes/Gardens and Land D.I.Y.' started by Bandersnatch, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    Solar Installation:

    The system is Off Grid Hybrid

    Solar panels are Monocrystalline 350 W X 32 = 11.2 kW

    Deep Cycle Gel Batteries 12V 200AH X 16 = 38.4 kWH
    (A Tesla Powerwall 2 has a capacity of 13.5 kilowatt-hours)

    Day One:

    Clamps and brackets:

    More updates to come.......
    Coffee, Cent, Wombat and 2 others like this.
  2. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

  3. Rice

    Rice Surin Founding Father

    I noticed you compare these two devices Deep Cycle Gel Batteries 12V 200AH X 16 = 38.4 kWH and (A Tesla Powerwall 2 has a capacity of 13.5 kilowatt-hours)
    @Bandersnatch out of interest what was the price difference? As did that sway your decision alone.
    It is generally accepted that the most economic and practical depth of discharge (DOD) for an AGM battery is 50%. For Lithium-iron-phosphate battery types, 80% DOD is used.
    So in fact both storage battery solutions are just about equal in use at the kW outputs you stated. I have many reasons why I would choose Lithium over lead acid, which I will not go into. But I am very interested in your choice of why you went that way.
    Coffee and Cent like this.
  4. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    Hi @Rice, I agree with your comments on Depth Of Discharge.

    38.4 @ 50% DOD = 19.2 kWh

    13.5 @ 80% DOD = 10.8 kWh

    So my system is closer to 2 Tesla Powerwalls

    If I could buy Tesla powerwalls in Thailand for the same price as in the US, I would have gone with Tesla, but they are not available here.

    I attended 3 green technology sourcing shows in BKK while researching my build. Lithium Ion batteries are very expensive here due to import tariffs. The best price I was quoted was 155,000 Baht for 5kWh

    200Ah batteries are 10k each and I bought 16
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  5. Rice

    Rice Surin Founding Father

    Thought that would be the reason. Damned shame really. With the strong Baht overseas goods be going down but they are not. Any financial wizards like to comment.
    Only joking ! I know the reason. :mad::rolleyes:
    Cent likes this.
  6. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    to quote from my build design criteria

    'As most solar components are imported, they are subject to high import duties based on their selling price. Even items manufactured in Thailand tend to be made in factories located in free trade zones which are designed to encourage exports. Anything brought into Thailand from a Thai free trade zone is treated as an import and taxed as such. I was quite interested in Redflow’s ZBM2 zinc-bromine flow battery which is made in Thailand. The price to purchase it after it has been shipped to Australia is ฿260,439 but in Thailand where it is manufactured, the price I was quoted was ฿550,000'
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  7. Cent


    "Anything brought into Thailand from a Thai free trade zone is treated as an import and taxed as such."

    Which is absurd and counterproductive for the country and the people, making it harder for the country to advance and become self sufficient in many areas they need to progress in. One being solar energy. As far as I am concerned the government should have a program putting in free solar panels and hook ups in every house in every village in the country. Oh wait, that would mean the government controlled/owned Thailand electric company would bring in less income! We can't have that now can we?
    Rice and Bandersnatch like this.
  8. Cent


    Instead the government wastes their money on idiotic things like aircraft carriers and submarines, as though there is some country that will be attacking them in the near future. And the corruption which siphons off so much of the money needed to improve the nation for the average Thai citizens.
    Coffee and Rice like this.
  9. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  10. nomad97

    nomad97 Ordinary member Staff Member

    So, just to clarify my understanding, you need 8 photo-electric panels on your roof and a couple of batteries so that your electric toaster has enough power to toast your bread for breakfast in the morning. Pretty neat. :D:D:D
    mario299 and Prakhonchai Nick like this.
  11. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    Kitchen is mostly gas and definitely no toaster.

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  12. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    Half the panels installed:

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  13. Cent


    As I was saying, the potential is there if the government wants to invest in the country. This article is from The Isaan Record.

    "Northeast Thailand has the potential to become a solar power hub. But with high installation costs, the government should do more to promote the use of alternative energy."

    The Thai government’s efforts for energy conservation and efficiency resulted in the 1992 Energy Conservation Promotion Act. Later the law was amended to push government agencies and the private sector to take energy saving measures and include the use of renewable energy to produce electricity. The Alternative Energy Development Plan for 2015-2036 aims to push the share of renewable energy consumption to 30 percent in 2036, compared to 12 percent in 2014.

    The state’s promotion of alternative energy and the growing number of companies producing equipment for the generation of alternative energy has stimulated market competition and lowered prices per unit. Devices to convert alternative energy to electricity for homes or workplaces are easily available for end consumers.

    For example, fifteen years ago, the price of a solar cell kit used to be 70-100 baht per watt. At the time of writing, the average cost is around 35-40 baht per watt.

    The costs depend on the type, size, and manufacture of the equipment. They can be easily bought and sold with no restrictions, leading to growing interest in alternative energy.

    Rooftop solar cell systems have been garnering more and more interest. The system can be installed directly onto the roof of an existing structure without the need to create additional horizontal space or additional structures.

    Based on an example from Sakon Nakhon province, a three-kilowatt solar rooftop system needs an area of around 20 square meters and can generate an average of 350 units of electricity per month. This translates into an electricity bill of around 1,370 baht according to the Provincial Electricity Authority’s (PEA) current rates. The cost of installation is around 120,000 baht and the break-even point would be around seven years of use. As solar cell systems can be used for up to 25 years, the installation is worth the cost.

    The main factors in generating electricity with solar cells is the amount of sunlight and the intensity of the sun’s rays. The higher the intensity, the higher the rate of electricity generation.

    According to 2017 data from the Ministry of Energy’s Department of Alternative Energy Development and Efficiency, areas in the Central region and the Northeast receive the highest amount of sunlight, especially in Surin, Ubon Ratchathani, Sisaket, Buriram, and Roi Et provinces. Average solar radiation across the region is around 17.3-18.59 megajoule/m2 per day, peaking in April.

    Apart from the intensity of solar radiation, the climate is another important factor in electricity generation. Most areas in the northeastern region have a tropical climate with hot weather and clear skies. Rain comes and goes in the rainy season but it hardly ever rains continuously for very long.

    This is the reason why the region is an appropriate area for generating electricity from solar cells. Solar cells are also popular among farmers in remote areas which may not have easy access to the PEA’s power lines.

    Thanks to their increasing affordability, portable solar cell kits are well positioned to replace petrol-engine powered water pumps, given the high price of fuel and the undesirability of greenhouse gasses.

    Challenges in the Northeast

    Isaan has the land area and sunlight to make it appropriate for the widespread installation of solar cell systems. There are also several areas in the region where there is no electricity. With easy access to solar cell systems, low prices, and a dynamic equipment and service market, the Northeast has much growth potential for solar energy.

    But it turns out that there are still few solar cell systems in Isaan compared to the eastern or northern regions. The main reasons are government policies, cost of production, and public attitudes.

    Current government policies that promote public and commercial use of alternative energy include lowered taxes for agencies using solar cells or subsidizing the installation of solar cells in government buildings or large factories.

    Subsidies can cover 70 percent or sometimes even 100 percent of the total investment, depending on the government project. Many government agencies wait for budgetary support from the government before installing such systems. This is similar to the private sector companies that only put aside a budget for energy conservation in their factories or workplaces if the government provides partial funding. It is also because some companies still consider alternative energy systems to be a high capital investment that requires specialized maintenance.

    The organizations that tend to receive subsidies are large agencies with high energy consumption. The installation of a large solar cell systems results in a cheaper energy cost of 35-45 baht per watt, with a return on investment period of less than ten years.

    Business operators tend to regard investment in alternative energy worthy only if costs can be recouped within five years. But factories in Isaan are mostly small and medium-sized factories that would install smaller solar cell panel systems with a break-even point after eight to ten years. For this reason, only a few companies in Isaan have decided to set up alternative energy systems.

    At the same time, there are not many private households that use solar cells. The large amount of agricultural area in Isaan could benefit from using solar cells to power water pumps or to use in various other agricultural activities.

    But not many people have been making use of this, as the systems are considered expensive. Even an investment of around 120,000 baht per family, which would take more than ten years to see a return on investment, might be too much for most families in the Northeast.

    Another problem is maintenance. The most affordable equipment often comes with no warranty and may have a short lifespan. Without well established service centers, damaged equipment may have to be replaced rather than repaired. Consumers consider this type of electricity generating system difficult to maintain, with no specialized technicians around who can fix the system quickly. The result is wasted money and a technology that is ultimately unable to meet their needs.

    The government should also allocate subsidies for the general public and not just for government agencies and the private sector, with different measures such as promoting zero-percent interest loans to encourage people to shift to alternative energy.

    The government should also allocate subsidies for the general public and not just for government agencies and the private sector, with different measures such as promoting zero-percent interest loans to encourage people to shift to alternative energy.

    Read the entire article by following the link below.
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  14. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    Inverter and Battery Bank.

    10kW Hybrid Inverter and 16 Deep Cycle Gel Batteries 12V 200AH = 38.4kWH

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  15. Rice

    Rice Surin Founding Father

    Have you considered high set ventilation exhaust on the battery room for Hydrogen @Bandersnatch. Hydrogen in normal air only needs to be 4 % for spontaneous explosion, which is 4% LEL.
    Even lower combustion flash of 2200C for a cigarette source for instance. That would ruin your day for sure.
    nomad97 and Coffee like this.
  16. Bandersnatch

    Bandersnatch Surin Solar Legend

    The mechanical room was designed with the intention that it would store batteries. It has five windows with mosquito screens that will remain open at all times. Ventilation is supported by a 50 inch ceiling fan.

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  17. Coffee

    Coffee Surin Dinosaur

    Ahh for moment I thought you were referring to America.

    Well if the Chinese utilize the Cambodian port for naval assets...nah...the SEATO Pact of 1954 will kick in...uhh maybe...maybe not.
  18. Coffee

    Coffee Surin Dinosaur

    Post 15 & 16 makes for a very interesting discussion in the future.

    Very nice thread @Bandersnatch ...and yes, well beyond my pay grade and knowledge.

    I surmise (as previously stated by Cent) that PEA is not leading the charge on solar.
    I believe the 7-year window on payback is too long for a "one never know what will happen tomorrow" mindset.

    Just look at this nations devotion to the sugar industry.
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  19. Pat

    Pat Surin Legend Staff Member

    According to the PEA here I need 3 phase before I can get the solar panels for our house.

    There is apparently a limit of 5kW for single phase users when feeding back into the grid.
    And 5kW is not something I am interested in.

    So onto the 3 phase stuff... See how that goes.
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  20. Rice

    Rice Surin Founding Father

    I am on 3 phase @Pat. Be warned it is a higher rate then domestic and it is a flat rate regardless of use. There is no daily supply charge though. It works out a bit more expensive but that was my only option.
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