UK Pensions

CharlesLittle said:
Do you think so?

Most expats I've met arrived in Thailand before state pension age. Living off their personal wealth. Investments, private pensions, rent from properties in their own countries.

I'd never really considered people living here on govt pension alone. I'd have thought immigration rules would be an issue, for those from UK anyway.
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Depends. Quite a few I've met live well on their government pension AND their work pensions. I've also met some who seem to do well on just their US Social Security money (around 2K USD a month coming in, plus usually a small work pension). Depends on how they want to live their retirement years here. Rent is cheap enough, food and electric etc, especially if they do not use much air con most days. Most in that level use a motorbike for transport, or bus, tuk tuk, motorbike taxi etc. A couple different guys I know of live in a small decent house right on the beach. Cheap rent too. As long as they have enough in the bank each year for the visa requirements they do alright. 1K USD for living expenses, and around 1K USD saved each month is doable if you are not needing the hiso lifestyle. Once they have the visa money in the bank it just sits there for their yearly visa requirements and they don't touch it, or need to. Many are older and have no Thai families and wives to support. And their hormones at their age are usually no longer raging and requiring much to sate their desires. :) Medical care is what does some of them in if they require expensive treatments. I've known a few who ended up leaving due to medical issues, serious issues that were above their means. They go back home for the US Medicare or the UK health care, or AUS free care (Canada too.)
 
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Cent said:
Medical care is what does some of them in if they require expensive treatments. I've known a few who ended up leaving due to medical issues, serious issues that were above their means. They go back home for the US Medicare or the UK health care, or AUS free care (Canada too.)
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Spot on, Cent.
Unfortunately some die or inadvertently kill themselves due to neglect of health issues, misunderstanding their own personal health conditions or a lack of an affordable personal healthcare provider (nurse, companion).

As well mental health deterioration or neglect brings a poorer associated health outcome.

"Honey, did you remember to take your medications today ?"
"My what ?"
 
Coffee said:
Spot on, Cent.
Unfortunately some die or inadvertently kill themselves due to neglect of health issues, misunderstanding their own personal health conditions or a lack of an affordable personal healthcare provider (nurse, companion).

As well mental health deterioration or neglect brings a poorer associated health outcome.

"Honey, did you remember to take your medications today ?"
"My what ?"
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Some do themselves no help due to overconsumption of alcohol. It just becomes a daily habit many are used to from their youth. As you age it is not helpful.
 
Ivor the Engine said:
www.express.co.uk

New plan to cut state pension age to 63 as ‘we can’t all work into our 70s’

The state pension age keeps climbing and climbing, yet millions cannot carry on working because they're not well enough. The problem is only going to get worse.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
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We all know this will never happen! As we also know why the age is lifted all the time. The input of funds cannot sustain the output so it is fiddled so it does at the detriment of the majority. All you need is good health and a career that did not destroy you physically. You too can collect the pension before you die.

THIS WAS ALWAYS GOING TO HAPPEN.
I was aware of this in my 20s. That's why I am not on a state pension. The state pension age in Australia has been 68 for some time now and thanks to the feminist movement women' s earlier retirement then men was removed. 555
 
Rice said:
We all know this will never happen! As we also know why the age is lifted all the time. The input of funds cannot sustain the output so it is fiddled so it does at the detriment of the majority. All you need is good health and a career that did not destroy you physically. You too can collect the pension before you die.

THIS WAS ALWAYS GOING TO HAPPEN.
I was aware of this in my 20s. That's why I am not on a state pension. The state pension age in Australia has been 68 for some time now and thanks to the feminist movement women' s earlier retirement then men was removed. 555
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Perhaps @Rice can comment. I have recently been told that Australia (like the Netherlands) pays a higher "state pension" to single people and somewhat lower if they are married. An Australian who died a year or so back claimed a single persons pension as he believed a Thai marriage certificate was invalid in Australia. His Thai widow has been left with nothing. A Dutchie also claimed a single pension despite being married to a Thai. The authorities found out and made him pay back the excess pension paid. He is now about to divorce his Thai wife so he can claim the higher pension (about 50% higher)
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
Perhaps @Rice can comment. I have recently been told that Australia (like the Netherlands) pays a higher "state pension" to single people and somewhat lower if they are married. An Australian who died a year or so back claimed a single persons pension as he believed a Thai marriage certificate was invalid in Australia. His Thai widow has been left with nothing. A Dutchie also claimed a single pension despite being married to a Thai. The authorities found out and made him pay back the excess pension paid. He is now about to divorce his Thai wife so he can claim the higher pension (about 50% higher)
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In Australia that is true as a single the pension plus other subsidies is $1,116.30 and $841.40 for couples each. There is assumed shared expense.
The belief a Thai marriage certificate was invalid in Australia it most certainly wrong. Although the sticker in the issue is that she would of had to be in Australia to receive her share or even a subsidy for her being a non citizen. I know somebody that was in this situation in Australia. She solved the problem by getting a well paid job. He subsequently lost his pension and now she does not see why she has to now pay to look after him and gives him no money. What a mess. She is Indonesian.
 
Ivor the Engine said:
www.express.co.uk

New plan to cut state pension age to 63 as ‘we can’t all work into our 70s’

The state pension age keeps climbing and climbing, yet millions cannot carry on working because they're not well enough. The problem is only going to get worse.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
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As it states not every job is equal in the stress it puts on your body. If you work in an office at a desk or whatever in an air conditioned space doing virtually no real physical labor you have a better chance of being able to work longer as you age. Those who actually do have jobs where they do physical labor of varying degrees, especially jobs out in the elements, have a lesser chance of being able to continue doing so after a certain age. Some have sturdier physiques and can work into their 70s, but those are rarer than the norm.

I had an uncle who worked into his 80s as a salesman. Selling is not an arduous job. He had to keep working as he made bad decisions throughout his career financially.

My thoughts are that most doing physical labor for their income start to deteriorate physically in their early 60s. The job itself that one does should be taken into consideration when talking about what age one should be able to retire. As well as their health issues incurred along their careers.
 
Ivor the Engine said:
www.dailyrecord.co.uk

People on New or Basic State Pension can change monthly payments to every week

The full New State Pension is worth £884.80 each pay period, or £221.20 per week.
www.dailyrecord.co.uk www.dailyrecord.co.uk
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Smoke and mirrors.

I get just shy of £192 pw (paid every 4 weeks), that is just shy of £770. Getting payments every week will not make me feel any better (or worse) off.

I do understand those pensioners on limited/fixed incomes who view their 4 weekly payment as 'monthly'. The 13th payment is regarded as a 'bonus', and I know more than one person who uses that for a holiday to Pattaya .
 
CO-CO said:
Smoke and mirrors.

I get just shy of £192 pw (paid every 4 weeks), that is just shy of £770. Getting payments every week will not make me feel any better (or worse) off.

I do understand those pensioners on limited/fixed incomes who view their 4 weekly payment as 'monthly'. The 13th payment is regarded as a 'bonus', and I know more than one person who uses that for a holiday to Pattaya .
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Or those without an additional private pension on top of the frozen Government pension
 
Coffee said:
Surely one could never survive in the UK on this stipend...particularly if they're renting an accomodation. :-(
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To receive the full pension in the UK, they would have needed to have worked for 35 years. Most people would have an occupational pension as well, though these days it is possible to take the occupational pension as a taxable lump sum, which some do and simply fritter it away. Once left with just that state pension, many come to Thailand, marry a young Thai lass, who thinks she will be rich when he dies. Truth is generally otherwise as there is no widows pension for her, and likely nothing in the bank either!
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
To receive the full pension in the UK, they would have needed to have worked for 35 years. Most people would have an occupational pension as well, though these days it is possible to take the occupational pension as a taxable lump sum, which some do and simply fritter it away. Once left with just that state pension, many come to Thailand, marry a young Thai lass, who thinks she will be rich when he dies. Truth is generally otherwise as there is no widows pension for her, and likely nothing in the bank either!
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Is the limit still 25% tax free on occupational pension drawdown?

I really don't think many Thai "lasses" see the long game. - most could not understand it anyway. If wives will believe it when their Farang says they are a cousin of HM The Queen and on his death she simply has to visit the British embassy (who will take care of her) .....or believe it when their Farang says they will 'inherit' his state pension then their lack of due diligence gets what it deserves.

These are just a couple of examples that @Prakhonchai Nick and I have been personally involved in. They serve to show that there are probably as many Thai lasses misled by Farangs, as there are Farangs hoodwinked by Thai lasses..

Those involved in 'saving' via an occupational pension scheme will likely have at least £10,000 pa - which doubles the state pension figure to a number that meets Immigration financial requirements for an extension based on retirement.

As a reasonably well paid white collar worker my occupational pension was £13k pa when I needed to take it at the age of 52. It has crept up to £20k pa over the last 16 years.

I have little sympathy for those who rock up to Thailand with only the state pension (often reduced because they haven't made sufficient contributions) - and then complain that UK pensions are one of the lowest in Europe, and are frozen.

As @Coffee said, try living on that in the UK..

I have said previously that the smallest state pension I have seen in Thailand was 8,000 Baht per month. In fairness this guy didn't moan he just got on with his reclusive life, with his Thai lady, drinking and smoking each day - and no doubt keeping under the Immigration radar.
 
In response to @CO-CO I believe the tax free limit on occupational pension drawdown is still 25%.

No lump sum payments are permitted from state pensions. There are still many farangs here in Thailand who seriously believe that not only will their wives receive the £2,000 lump sum on their death, but also believe their wives will inherit a % of their state pension.

Over the past 2/3 years it has become far more frequent with the widows I have assisted that their husbands do not have the money nor pensions that they led their wives/partners to believe. Further the UK state pension system that used to make a one off payment to widows of £2,000 when the husband died, ceased some 7/8 years ago as did regular payments for new claimants of around 20/25,000baht a month for the benefit of young school aged children when the Mother's husband died (regardless of whether he was the Father or not).
 
Prakhonchai Nick said:
In response to @CO-CO I believe the tax free limit on occupational pension drawdown is still 25%.

No lump sum payments are permitted from state pensions. There are still many farangs here in Thailand who seriously believe that not only will their wives receive the £2,000 lump sum on their death, but also believe their wives will inherit a % of their state pension.

Over the past 2/3 years it has become far more frequent with the widows I have assisted that their husbands do not have the money nor pensions that they led their wives/partners to believe. Further the UK state pension system that used to make a one off payment to widows of £2,000 when the husband died, ceased some 7/8 years ago as did regular payments for new claimants of around 20/25,000baht a month for the benefit of young school aged children when the Mother's husband died (regardless of whether he was the Father or not).
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Nick is referring to Bereavement Payments (now Bereavement Support Payments). We pretty much started up in business together on the back of the £2,000 Bereavement Payment (previously "Death Grant?')...which ANY widow of an eligible British citizen could claim. Nick may correct me but I believe qualification was that the deceased had to have made a minimum of ONE National Insurance contribution! They are actually unrelated to pensions as the payment is non-means tested welfare benefit.

Thai widows are still entitled to Bereavement Support Payments - unfortunately since April 2017 (via The Pensions Act) they have to be living in the UK at the time of the death/claim.
 
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I agree that few - if any - UK residents in receipt of their State Pension can survive on that alone.

The UK state benefit system agrees with that too, and just about anyone who has no additional means of financial support receives "top-up" benefits in order that they don't starve to death!
These additional benefits include:
Pension Credit is a means-tested benefit for people over State Pension age who have a low income. It comes in 2 parts: Guarantee Credit and Savings Credit. It's separate from the State Pension.
Guarantee Credit tops up your weekly income to a guaranteed minimum level. This level is currently:
  • £218.15 if you're single
  • £332.95 if you're a couple.
Savings Credit is extra money if you've got some savings or if your income is higher than the basic State Pension. It's available to people who reached State Pension age before 6 April 2016. You could get up to:
  • £17.01 extra per week if you're single
  • £19.04 extra per week if you're a couple.
By claiming Pension Credit, you might become eligible for other benefits too, such as help with health and housing costs. The list goes on, but not for anyone living outside the UK.

As CO-CO writes above, there was a time when widows received a £2,000 lump-sum benefit on the death of their spouses. That vanished last year, but was replaced by Bereavement Support Payments (not available to widows outside the UK - surprise surprise., but quite generous if resident in the UK.)

So, the State seems to believe that you will manage on your own, with no State Pension increases if you live in Thailand, but recognises that you don't stand a chance of surviving without additional benefits in the country to which you paid N.I. contributions for 35 years of your working life or more in many cases. This simply adds to the unfairness of the present system for those who don't qualify for these additional benefits due to the coincidence of their geographic location.
 
Merlin said:
I agree that few - if any - UK residents in receipt of their State Pension can survive on that alone.

The UK state benefit system agrees with that too, and just about anyone who has no additional means of financial support receives "top-up" benefits in order that they don't starve to death!
These additional benefits include:
Pension Credit is a means-tested benefit for people over State Pension age who have a low income. It comes in 2 parts: Guarantee Credit and Savings Credit. It's separate from the State Pension.
Guarantee Credit tops up your weekly income to a guaranteed minimum level. This level is currently:
  • £218.15 if you're single
  • £332.95 if you're a couple.
Savings Credit is extra money if you've got some savings or if your income is higher than the basic State Pension. It's available to people who reached State Pension age before 6 April 2016. You could get up to:
  • £17.01 extra per week if you're single
  • £19.04 extra per week if you're a couple.
By claiming Pension Credit, you might become eligible for other benefits too, such as help with health and housing costs. The list goes on, but not for anyone living outside the UK.

As CO-CO writes above, there was a time when widows received a £2,000 lump-sum benefit on the death of their spouses. That vanished last year, but was replaced by Bereavement Support Payments (not available to widows outside the UK - surprise surprise., but quite generous if resident in the UK.)

So, the State seems to believe that you will manage on your own, with no State Pension increases if you live in Thailand, but recognises that you don't stand a chance of surviving without additional benefits in the country to which you paid N.I. contributions for 35 years of your working life or more in many cases. This simply adds to the unfairness of the present system for those who don't qualify for these additional benefits due to the coincidence of their geographic location.
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A good, comprehensive summary of the benefits available to UK resident pensioners.

Simply playing devil's advocate here but, as a UK politician, I would reword your final sentence to read "geographical location of choice".

We make our bed, we lie in it.

Continuing the bedroom theme - in 2006 when (as @FERRET might say) I was balls deep into a soi 6 bar girl, and thinking that Thailand might be a nice place to live, the last thing on my mind was frozen pensions.

Frozen pensions are unfair simply because of the basis on which they were designed. Although classed as a benefit they are effectively an entitlement because you have to contribute into NIC's to qualify.......no adjustment to contributions was made for location - so why would should a freeze be placed on pension payments?

Frozen pensions are a soft target for politicians and there is little public sympathy within the UK for the 'plight' of the ex-pat pensioner who has chosen to swan off to the sun in his twilight years.
 
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