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MHaywards Building information
- Thread starter MHayward
- Start date
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melvin
Guest
could you elaborate a bit on what you mean when you say the usufruct is transferable?
(or do you say that the land is transferable?)
i had the impression that an usufruct was somewhat strictly personal and not transferable
wildoates
Surin Legend
Still don't understand if you have your name on the Chanote Land Title , then that is saying land is yours.... a Usufruct is given for something you don't own.... is the Chanote good, if so the Usufruct is not.......Agree with Alan here, don't think it is worth the ink used on it......
SurinJoe
Cannot re - Member
A Usfruct is an agreement that you have control of the land your home is on. By "transferable" I mean you can rent the house to someone else which would be transfering the control of the property to the renter.
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SurinJoe
Cannot re - Member
I think what he means is his name is on the Chanote as the holder of a Usfruct on the property.
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Dave The Dude
Guest
I understand now, in UK speak, its a bit like having a 2nd charge on a property. A marker on the Land Title docs
Sorry, I have had a momentary lapse into Banking speak!!!
It won't happen again
Dave
Sorry, I have had a momentary lapse into Banking speak!!!
It won't happen again
Dave
surinmike
Well-Known Member
Hope he doesn't have a big life insurance policy one of her "brothers" hears about...Oops5.
You are correct...however obtaining a Usufruct with ''no time limit'' is not always possible at small Land Offices when doing it yourself, as I found out. Although legally correct, the Sangkha Land Office refused to accept my Usufruct Agreement as drawn up, signed and witnessed by my Lawyers.
The Head Guy there was having a bad day, shouting over the whole room at customers, including us. He was shouting at me that he wouldnt validate the Usufruct for my lifetime, but only for 30 years. My Lawyers even spoke to him and his assistant on the phone and although when he instructed the assistant to check the law and she found out that we were correct, lifetime is legal, he refused to 'lose face' and allow it.
In fact in front of everyone else, he told my Girlfriend she was being stupid and to take her Farang out of the Office and send him back to his own country, as he refused to let this happen to land in Thailand.
Faced with a stuation where I had a choice of 30 years or nothing, I opted for the 'agree and smile sweetly' routine and a Usufruct made at the Land Office in Thai and from then on the whole thing took only ten minutes and cost 75 Baht.
Once it was all completed, as we were leaving, I thanked them all and my girlfriend told the Assistant to teach her boss the law next time.
My own Usufruct Agreement still stands, is very strong and acceptable under Thai Law, therefore I intend to try and have it 'attached' to the Land Title at some time in the next 30 years, possibly when the guy a Sangkha has learned more about the Law or has got the sack...?
I would urge anyone in a situation similar to mine, ie with GF as Land Owner and themselves financing a house build, to take out a Usufruct Agreement as it gives almost total protection to any foreigner.....neither her or her family can do anything (legal) regarding my right to the Land and any property built upon it. She remains the 'owner' and I am the 'user' with control over everything.
Anyone needing more info, pm me and I will try to help as best I can.
Cheers, MH
The Head Guy there was having a bad day, shouting over the whole room at customers, including us. He was shouting at me that he wouldnt validate the Usufruct for my lifetime, but only for 30 years. My Lawyers even spoke to him and his assistant on the phone and although when he instructed the assistant to check the law and she found out that we were correct, lifetime is legal, he refused to 'lose face' and allow it.
In fact in front of everyone else, he told my Girlfriend she was being stupid and to take her Farang out of the Office and send him back to his own country, as he refused to let this happen to land in Thailand.
Faced with a stuation where I had a choice of 30 years or nothing, I opted for the 'agree and smile sweetly' routine and a Usufruct made at the Land Office in Thai and from then on the whole thing took only ten minutes and cost 75 Baht.
Once it was all completed, as we were leaving, I thanked them all and my girlfriend told the Assistant to teach her boss the law next time.
My own Usufruct Agreement still stands, is very strong and acceptable under Thai Law, therefore I intend to try and have it 'attached' to the Land Title at some time in the next 30 years, possibly when the guy a Sangkha has learned more about the Law or has got the sack...?
I would urge anyone in a situation similar to mine, ie with GF as Land Owner and themselves financing a house build, to take out a Usufruct Agreement as it gives almost total protection to any foreigner.....neither her or her family can do anything (legal) regarding my right to the Land and any property built upon it. She remains the 'owner' and I am the 'user' with control over everything.
Anyone needing more info, pm me and I will try to help as best I can.
Cheers, MH
Sorry to call you a 'Pessimist' but it is really Time to 'Live and Learn' ....
.....Agree with Alan here, don't think it is worth the ink used on it....
Your use of the words ''still dont understand...dont think'' means that you really dont know...
First of all...The Chanote is good, verified by Lawyers and totally correct.
Secondly....The Usufruct is legal, drawn up by the Thai land Office and signed, witnessed and Stamped therein.
Thirdly....Have a read of the information from Isaan Lawyers and see what you ''think'' after that !!
Although unable to own land in Thailand, at least I have some degree of control and protection of my ''investments'' how about you?
Cheers, MH
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I can elaborate...This is a Clause from my own Usufruct Agreement.
The Usufructuary at its own discretion, without prior consent from the Owner, may assign or transfer the rights and obligations under this Agreement to any other person(s) or entity.
ผู้ทรงสิทธิเก็บกินสามารถมอบหมายหรือโอนสิทธิเก็บกินตามสัญญาฉบับนี้ไปให้บุคคลอื่นได้ ทั้งนี้ โดยไม่จำต้องได้รับความยินยอมจากเจ้าของแต่อย่างใด
This is a Standard Clause in the Contract, however it is possible to enter the Agreement without having this in place. Basically a Usufruct can be tailored to individual requirements.
Initially my GF was not entirely happy about having this clause in the Contract, as it gives me the right to transfer the Usufruct to anyone I want, without having her consent. However I stood my ground and it stayed as is.
The key to the whole thing is that she, as the Land Owner, has entered into an Agreement with me over the Rights of use of her land. This must be a Voluntary Agreement and she has to fully understand all clauses and all consequences of the Agreement before any Thai Lawyer will allow her to sign the Contract.
I have the Contract (as above) which she signed with me, which I originally tried to register but was disallowed by the Boss guy in the Land Office simply because he did not know the Law and was not happy to give Lifetime Rights out to a Farang that day. That Contract is still a legal Agreement between me and her.
In order to get my name onto the Chanote, which now prevents her from doing anything with the Land without my consent I also have the Contract made at the Land Office valid for 30 years.
Seriously Guys, this is the way to go and can be done in a few minutes for 75 Baht fee...Protect yourselves.
Cheers, MH
Fortunately she is an only child....also the family are quite happy for me to be part of all this...they get plenty of 'added benefits' too.
I would be interested to know of how any other guys living in House they have built/paid for on Land owned by Thia Wife/GF stand. Some may well have the same sort of Agreement, however I suspect from the misguided or cynical comments here, many do not ???
Cheers, MH
surinmike
Well-Known Member
Try being a Farang ,living in a village, of all the wives' relatives, if unfortunately you do part company. I did, and it became very difficult and uncomfortable, no one will side with you except for the boys drinking beers or whiskey at the village store and thats only when you buy.Things go missing while your gone nobody knows anything. Farang alone in the house he built in his wifes' village might as well just walk away, no one would buy the place and it would be impossible to get the new girlfriend/wife to live there. When you put the money down in a village setting its gone, so make the best you can with your wife, good luck, smile and wave, mai pen rai.....
bartomeer
Surin Legend
and burn this sucker down.
Fully Agree, as I have said many times in the past....I can walk away from all of it if I have to.
However, having the Usufruct in place prevents her or anyone else making use of the Land or any property built upon it without my agreement.
So if i did walk I would still hold the cards and do whatever I want....which although may not be ''winning anything here'' it does give me some pretty good protection.
Cheers, MH
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lukey1979
Guest
He sounds like a right little Hitler. Typical behavior of the civil Serpents you meet In Thailand, they all think their sh1t does'nt stink, and can adjust the law to suit their own feelings on such matters. That fella would do well to keep his mouth shut and his opinions to himself.
I have to visit Sangka land office soon to sort out my Usufruct.. Deep joy.
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melvin
Guest
pretty good protection?
do you think it would be kinda easy to enforce your rights legally? against the wishes of a Thai national?
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Dave The Dude
Guest
I am loathed to sound like I am publicly championing Thai Law enforcement but I THINK a court would uphold a Thai Law (probably with the help of 'tea money' somewhere down the line!
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surin
Guest
yes!
ducati05
Member
Just like to add one more advantage having a Usufruct..
In the worse case of that your loving wife passing on before you, the house
will not be passed on to her family until your death, no Usufruct and a greedy
lot of inlaws can have you on the Soi before you can empty the beer fridge....
I have a Pre-nup, Usufruct. She gets everthing in Thailand and my kids get everything
back in Oz and she was very happy to sign everything, and yes I payed so she had her own Lawyer so she understood it all, I,m no expert but thats how I see it.....
Our house is not in the family village.... but if it ends because of no fault of her I would happily walk and leave her and our stepdaughter with a home...
In the worse case of that your loving wife passing on before you, the house
will not be passed on to her family until your death, no Usufruct and a greedy
lot of inlaws can have you on the Soi before you can empty the beer fridge....
I have a Pre-nup, Usufruct. She gets everthing in Thailand and my kids get everything
back in Oz and she was very happy to sign everything, and yes I payed so she had her own Lawyer so she understood it all, I,m no expert but thats how I see it.....
Our house is not in the family village.... but if it ends because of no fault of her I would happily walk and leave her and our stepdaughter with a home...